============================================================== Guild: Antares Development Initiative Channel: Channel Archive / gov-discussion Topic: Discussion for anything governance related. ============================================================== [01-Aug-24 11:54 PM] riseoffilth#0000 (pinned) Howdy Folks. The purposes of these channels are to support education on governance, ask and answer questions for help and advice, to advocate and support capable candidates for Parliament positions(should they prove themselves reliable and capable), and to create connections for all Antares people looking to find reasonably price materials to support their planets. I would like to preface and say that I would like all discussion on actions and behaviors to be limited to post-June 2024 Politics changes. This is a new chance and clean slate for all. [02-Aug-24 12:15 AM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/heresy-purge-w40k-warhammer-gif-10271501 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/heresy-purge-w40k-warhammer-gif-10271501 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/aQxMYkWjdcnFUjXgFX64mSC2pKbNVBexzEoPrMrpDeA/https/media.tenor.com/THgyR1iV8koAAAAe/heresy-purge.png {Reactions} πŸ˜” (3) [02-Aug-24 12:15 AM] riseoffilth#0000 @Deleted User ^ [02-Aug-24 08:26 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 @riseoffilth how many HAB and WOR do you have for sale? I'm still doing the math on how many I need, but it's probably a lot... Also, you listed GL, just GL? no TUB?... [02-Aug-24 09:18 AM] riseoffilth#0000 More to add πŸ™‚ [02-Aug-24 09:18 AM] riseoffilth#0000 this was all done at like 1am for me {Reactions} πŸ˜† [02-Aug-24 09:18 AM] riseoffilth#0000 πŸ˜„ [02-Aug-24 01:15 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Lol, same. I should check my prices again today... [03-Aug-24 03:42 PM] spermatozoon_saloon#0000 So what is the purpose of the lower members of Parliament. Is it to nuisance and diffuse the power that the near monarchical governor used to have? [03-Aug-24 03:43 PM] jcheung#0000 Backup if someone goes inactive [03-Aug-24 03:57 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 yes and yes. [03-Aug-24 03:58 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 mostly the diffusion of power to create a system where the governing actually involves some politics. But they also specifically made it so that even small planets have 1 MP just in case the GOV goes inactive [03-Aug-24 04:21 PM] riseoffilth#0000 and if gov is being shit on larger planets, the ability to overrule [07-Aug-24 04:54 PM] jvaler#0000 ENG are a problem on SE-648b, and the solution i decided on was to bump the art cafe up to 2 inputs because both comfort and culture seem to be low. should i be upgrading it instead? idk if it will cost less that way in the long run {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1270862564636491947/image.png?ex=6814963e&is=681344be&hm=804927972b71dea5825bf5a27277b929e5312b26c4ef48f628cd56c023b0916f& [07-Aug-24 04:55 PM] jvaler#0000 tbh i wish SE-648b didn't have these inefficient mixed-fulfillment POPI but i'm working with what's already here [07-Aug-24 04:55 PM] jvaler#0000 for reference {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1270863036260810792/image.png?ex=681496af&is=6813452f&hm=4b7a04cc69fa9043c9b0469dc5acd66a5324ea3380af52b49d3bdf8cc8cb09cc& [07-Aug-24 04:56 PM] jvaler#0000 rfab costs just sound 😬 [07-Aug-24 05:11 PM] sidepipe#0000 i have these if it helps? {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1270866814649499748/image.png?ex=68149a34&is=681348b4&hm=00fbd4416b5567bc6898e6d7ea5edb180a6b3cc1f0cd5eb8dbd19fa0bd07c4dd& [07-Aug-24 05:11 PM] jvaler#0000 🧐 [07-Aug-24 05:13 PM] sidepipe#0000 for rfab costs, I mean. were you planning to upgrade the ACA? [07-Aug-24 05:13 PM] sidepipe#0000 or did I just completely misunderstand that? πŸ˜„ [07-Aug-24 05:13 PM] jvaler#0000 no that's correct [07-Aug-24 05:13 PM] jvaler#0000 well not planning, just considering [07-Aug-24 05:14 PM] jvaler#0000 that's why i'm asking if it's the right thing to do [07-Aug-24 05:14 PM] sidepipe#0000 ah yeah, I can't answer that question. but happy to sell you some cheap rfabs if it helps πŸ˜„ [07-Aug-24 06:32 PM] riseoffilth#0000 @jvaler Hey, what are the taxes like on planet? [07-Aug-24 06:32 PM] riseoffilth#0000 money in wallet [07-Aug-24 06:33 PM] riseoffilth#0000 for the record, your use of KOM on the wellness center as an input has a 3x higher cost than if you have used DW [07-Aug-24 06:33 PM] riseoffilth#0000 and thats assuming KOM is 450/u, which... it is not. [07-Aug-24 06:33 PM] riseoffilth#0000 so really, its closer to double that. 6x more expensive than using DW [07-Aug-24 06:34 PM] jvaler#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1270887762769346590/image.png?ex=6814adb6&is=68135c36&hm=a0dfdbff70dd869a7d3592beec80c12d59a9cfe740296ac1c2b7c90a5f4a6915& [07-Aug-24 06:34 PM] jvaler#0000 yeah i just didn't wanna buy more stuff off the CX lol. i make a bunch of KOM so... [07-Aug-24 06:34 PM] jvaler#0000 the fallacy is fine when i do it okay πŸ™ƒ [07-Aug-24 06:35 PM] riseoffilth#0000 i might ask you to ban yourself if you use the argument "i make it so its cheaper" [07-Aug-24 06:35 PM] jvaler#0000 i just might have to πŸ˜” [07-Aug-24 06:36 PM] riseoffilth#0000 additionally, you shouldnt have put GL in the Art cafe. It is going to mostly be wasted because its capped... and even then, its way overdone [07-Aug-24 06:36 PM] riseoffilth#0000 whoever built those structures is a fucking idiot [07-Aug-24 06:36 PM] riseoffilth#0000 or at least, whoever did the wellness center [07-Aug-24 06:38 PM] riseoffilth#0000 But my advice going forward is, only supply OFF to the SST, DW to the wellness center, and DW to the Art cafe. You should be able to run the planet at 120k a month [07-Aug-24 06:38 PM] jvaler#0000 wait capped? i saw that pop up on archiel's sheet but then it disappeared after some fiddling [07-Aug-24 06:38 PM] riseoffilth#0000 i cant speak for Archie [07-Aug-24 06:38 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I didnt make his sheet [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 πŸ˜„ [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] jvaler#0000 but the ENG... [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 and ive found mine to be... while more chaotic looking and only readable by one truly insane [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 more accurate [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 But the ENG what [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 finish that thought [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 do tell me [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 what about the eng [07-Aug-24 06:39 PM] riseoffilth#0000 whats wrong with the eng [07-Aug-24 06:40 PM] jvaler#0000 they've been in a deficit for weeks [07-Aug-24 06:40 PM] riseoffilth#0000 ok [07-Aug-24 06:40 PM] riseoffilth#0000 and [07-Aug-24 06:40 PM] riseoffilth#0000 has anyone offered to pay to run a program? [07-Aug-24 06:40 PM] riseoffilth#0000 if not? Fuck off [07-Aug-24 06:40 PM] jvaler#0000 they're staying static and not growing though lol [07-Aug-24 06:40 PM] riseoffilth#0000 This is a small planet with a razor thin budget [07-Aug-24 06:41 PM] jvaler#0000 oh you're right, it does say capped [07-Aug-24 06:42 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Thats because Martinc1194 didnt provide upkeep and let it lapse. I couldnt do anything because I cant speak in planet comms, and I dont have a base there, so I cannot put things in the POPI [07-Aug-24 06:42 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I even warned him that popi was running out [07-Aug-24 06:42 PM] riseoffilth#0000 last popr is his failure [07-Aug-24 06:42 PM] riseoffilth#0000 but he left the planet because its gone RES cogc [07-Aug-24 06:42 PM] riseoffilth#0000 so i guess that his way to say "fuck you" [07-Aug-24 06:43 PM] jvaler#0000 OH [07-Aug-24 06:43 PM] jvaler#0000 so POPI was empty for longer than i realized [07-Aug-24 06:43 PM] riseoffilth#0000 its been empty for 2 weeks [07-Aug-24 06:43 PM] jvaler#0000 eek [07-Aug-24 06:43 PM] jvaler#0000 i thought it was just a blip cause i saw some remnants of upkeep in there before i refilled it all [07-Aug-24 06:43 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I'm sorry I didnt reach out to you sooner since I asked you to step up. It slipped my mind completely [07-Aug-24 06:44 PM] jvaler#0000 it's all good lol [07-Aug-24 06:45 PM] riseoffilth#0000 unfortunately, Xepoiv is a useless dumbfuck who doesnt speak in any channel or respond to DMs, but runs on these smaller planets and gets the occasional seats, and then blocks any motion from passing in under 24 hours [07-Aug-24 06:45 PM] jvaler#0000 so i'll just wait for POPR to settle and see what happens. and switch to all DW and not refill the GL [07-Aug-24 06:45 PM] riseoffilth#0000 OFF is cheaper for SST [07-Aug-24 06:45 PM] jvaler#0000 yeah sorry OFF, DW, DW [07-Aug-24 06:45 PM] jvaler#0000 forgot SST had a DW input [07-Aug-24 06:45 PM] riseoffilth#0000 if he wasnt there, or someone who was willing to contribute and vote was there, you could run a FES 3 and at least try and mitigate pop loss for this cycle [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] riseoffilth#0000 but now because of him being there, you cannot under 24 hours [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] jvaler#0000 i filled it like a week ago it shouldn't be too bad [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] riseoffilth#0000 even if he voted no, there would be no change [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] riseoffilth#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1270890854319653007/image.png?ex=6814b097&is=68135f17&hm=90516ea7348106ac963bfe3df7fa6016f4febc704948affccca4b30526f7be55& [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] riseoffilth#0000 oh it was a week ago? [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] riseoffilth#0000 did you top it off today? [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] jvaler#0000 oh yeah i added another like 120 DW [07-Aug-24 06:46 PM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/thor-marvel-meme-what-heroes-do-gif-14703930 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/thor-marvel-meme-what-heroes-do-gif-14703930 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/vHKZx3NUAlVU8PW8DW-2W0mBNEA_NILk-Ye8ERKhXTU/https/media.tenor.com/K_YUkFYeDqUAAAAe/thor-marvel.png [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 i feel less bad for the planet [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 ill run in next election [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] jvaler#0000 πŸ™ [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 with any luck, we can deny him a seat [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 and at least get votes in when needed, and i can help keep an eye [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] jvaler#0000 funny that combines from more than a few days of separation lol [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 its dumb [07-Aug-24 06:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 not funny, imo [07-Aug-24 06:48 PM] jcheung#0000 Should split things more than 25 hrs apart [07-Aug-24 06:48 PM] jcheung#0000 Imo [07-Aug-24 06:50 PM] riseoffilth#0000 You should fix the taxes on the planet too [07-Aug-24 06:50 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Raise them to the normal 12, 35, 80, 600 like on most worlds [07-Aug-24 06:50 PM] riseoffilth#0000 your wallet will be healthier [07-Aug-24 06:50 PM] jvaler#0000 i didn't know this about xepoiv lmao, i've yet to interact with them [07-Aug-24 06:50 PM] jvaler#0000 yea... :/ [07-Aug-24 06:50 PM] riseoffilth#0000 he doesnt talk [07-Aug-24 06:50 PM] riseoffilth#0000 he doesnt respond or communicate [07-Aug-24 06:51 PM] jvaler#0000 why do they get votes???? [07-Aug-24 06:51 PM] riseoffilth#0000 "this guy looks as good as anyone" [07-Aug-24 06:51 PM] riseoffilth#0000 her durr hurr [07-Aug-24 06:51 PM] riseoffilth#0000 not to mention his own vote [07-Aug-24 06:51 PM] jvaler#0000 err they didn't get votes on SE-648b actually, that was just their self-vote and lack of competitors {Reactions} πŸ‘† [07-Aug-24 06:51 PM] jvaler#0000 oh speaking of, can you click run on SE-648b now? so you'll win any tiebreakers [07-Aug-24 06:51 PM] jvaler#0000 i went ahead and did that earlier today too [07-Aug-24 06:52 PM] jvaler#0000 nice [07-Aug-24 06:53 PM] jvaler#0000 oh i didn't know this, will do [07-Aug-24 06:53 PM] riseoffilth#0000 already done [07-Aug-24 06:53 PM] riseoffilth#0000 you should do it as soon as the elections end [07-Aug-24 06:54 PM] jvaler#0000 yeah those notis get a bit lost lol [07-Aug-24 06:54 PM] jvaler#0000 i'll try to remember tho [08-Aug-24 07:20 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Ooo, new content! I'll just offer my immediate thing, per that planet, via jvalers issue. [08-Aug-24 07:29 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 If you're looking to upgrade POPI buildings, you should start with the smalls'. They don't offer the best satisfaction benefits..... but they're just bfabs, and not l/r/a-fabs...... These building costs scale, every level as well.? You can pad out the SST/PAR with just DW, and the INF with just OFF. Why? Because I'm looking that the most favourite need requirements of each POPR tier [ PIO-life support; SET-safety; TEC-health; ENG-comfort, and SCI-culture and education ]. The SCI's are just pure expense, compared to what the current universe has built up (we're just barely discussing shipbuilding en-large. Most of the SCI requirements are not involved in direct shipbuilding + there is no market for them, unless you're going to produce/pay for what's currently on sale)... I think I recently built a WCE on Pallada. That thing was 3x as much cost as the PAR was, on level equality... I'm just pointing out the efficiencies here, since these things will take alot of money to build, and a lot of time to pay back. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1271082924393103360/Screenshot_from_2024-08-08_07-18-12.png?ex=6814bab8&is=68136938&hm=7f03817e5e2c7e05164cd3a2c1855662935cd2d59aa6086cdf8dc076d12d9d19& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1271082924707545212/Screenshot_from_2024-08-08_07-18-19.png?ex=6814bab8&is=68136938&hm=af6802e544bb24474e1728aad87820d545ec8d1b9f7466bccce54eebab2f3d9b& [08-Aug-24 07:31 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 The point? Overbuild on the cheap stuff, and you can run rather efficiently, with purely basic COM inputs, for quite a while. If you get beyond that point, well I think we can have that discussion, on the more expensive POPI upgrades + upkeeps, at a later time? I don't think that we're just suited for dumping higher tier inputs into POPI needs, that aren't required, or easily attainable, through another means. Just my 2 cents. [08-Aug-24 09:17 AM] riseoffilth#0000 I think the opposite. Dont overbuild. SST and INF's safety and happiness are not big requirements to higher pop happiness and are most impactful on PIO/SET. Overbuilding means excess pio/set pop, which reduces the effectiveness of all other fulfillments, and subsequently, lower high tier pop happiness {Reactions} πŸ‘† (2) [08-Aug-24 09:23 AM] jcheung#0000 question. do buildings provide passive boost without being supplied? [08-Aug-24 09:26 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 UNI provides passive education, but otherwise no {Reactions} πŸ‘ [08-Aug-24 09:27 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 agreed, excessive PIO/SET unemployment is just money down the drain if you're trying to get higher tier pops [08-Aug-24 09:56 AM] jvaler#0000 @riseoffilth 🧐 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1271119939956244541/image.png?ex=6814dd31&is=68138bb1&hm=731f09c26053d660826b557bb8c0d5173f005328ce72563a0b25c271d7174a9d& [08-Aug-24 09:57 AM] jvaler#0000 maybe they just don't like you πŸ˜› {Reactions} 🀣 [08-Aug-24 10:11 AM] realharvey#0000 what planet is this? [08-Aug-24 10:17 AM] jvaler#0000 SE-648b [08-Aug-24 10:18 AM] realharvey#0000 i am only on SE-648a :( [08-Aug-24 10:36 AM] riseoffilth#0000 I am shocked [08-Aug-24 10:37 AM] riseoffilth#0000 SHOCKED [08-Aug-24 10:49 AM] jvaler#0000 you do LI? [08-Aug-24 10:49 AM] realharvey#0000 no Smelting AL [08-Aug-24 10:50 AM] jcheung#0000 huh. not what i expected [08-Aug-24 10:51 AM] realharvey#0000 all this AL has to be smelted somewhere {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1271133675735744554/image.png?ex=6814e9fc&is=6813987c&hm=35a298d1cae51056d7eb1fe5b6b93dd3b130ffb5b7cd41acd00397637e398bbc& [08-Aug-24 12:42 PM] archielvahr#0000 LIB and broadcasting hub also provide a smaller passive education bonus. There should be an INF on that planet, which is just a handful of bfabs. Welness centers are an oddity that I generally don't recommend. The "Mat Price Calc" sheet of Archiel's Governor Helper will help you find the $/unit satisfaction provided by each mat in each building. OFF in an INF is 3x-4x more efficient than DW in a wellness center. You can use the top right corner of the first sheet to get a handle on what your engineer education rate is going to be at different levels of supply. If you're expecting to grow the planet, you'll probably need a park to efficiently supply the amounts of comfort you need. I didn't run the whole sheet though. On a brand new planet, I don't mind ACAs as a cheap way to max out your comfort and culture with a single building. But I do that for fresh planets with <1k people, because they saturate quickly, and DEC and COF in an ACA is incredibly costly. [08-Aug-24 12:43 PM] archielvahr#0000 Lemme know if you have any specific questions [08-Aug-24 12:43 PM] archielvahr#0000 Regarding Comfort and Culture per dollar: http://kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-08_12-43-19.png {Embed} http://kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-08_12-43-19.png https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/3n3456q1m3az7vpDxcPKgSp9XtR56FnL0ogQi5_Dlwo/http/kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-08_12-43-19.png [08-Aug-24 12:45 PM] archielvahr#0000 I suspect engineer immigration projects will be the cheapest way to fill those open jobs. There are some governors who would rather put the money into POPI and never run an unsponsored program, but ultimately I think it comes down to most effective way to fill the jobs per $ spent, regardless of if it goes into a program or a POPI item. You can simulate both in the "Projected Growth" section of the sheet [08-Aug-24 03:46 PM] jcheung#0000 so i just finally looked at the program running on bober... is there any good reasonable reason it's running scientist immigration while set and tec both had open jobs? πŸ€” [08-Aug-24 03:47 PM] jcheung#0000 rather, what is the reason, is there no program for set and tec? [08-Aug-24 04:17 PM] archielvahr#0000 Last week's program (during that POPI report that was 6 days ago) was scientists. The current program on Bober is Festivities 3 [08-Aug-24 04:17 PM] archielvahr#0000 http://kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-08_16-17-22.png {Embed} http://kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-08_16-17-22.png https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/dHR0jY-hK0tQlgjrrGL7lp9L2Q2INAqoyU5BkIK352I/http/kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-08_16-17-22.png [08-Aug-24 04:20 PM] archielvahr#0000 You'll want those happinesses to be above 70% to really get migration going to close up those SET and TECH shortages, it looks like a little more safety and health would go a long way. They are growing pretty fast at the current rate, but there havve been open jobs for a few weeks [08-Aug-24 04:21 PM] archielvahr#0000 One thing to notice is that 340 open SET jobs is the number before the change, and you gained 208 SET, so actual open jobs is like 130. [08-Aug-24 04:22 PM] archielvahr#0000 tech had no migration because their happiness was between 50% and 70%. They had decent education growth. With the festival that will be 20% higher, and you'll get some growth across all tiers [08-Aug-24 05:27 PM] jcheung#0000 Ah. Didn't know that's how that worked [08-Aug-24 11:04 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Because Yngwette snuck a motion through without me seeing and blocking it. They thought that there was a SCI def because he misread the POPR {Reactions} 😬 [09-Aug-24 02:20 AM] nyanism#0000 science sure is expensive, 3 months of those and you ended up with 157 sciencetists [09-Aug-24 09:42 AM] jcheung#0000 holy crap that's a massive boost to set and tech [09-Aug-24 10:17 AM] riseoffilth#0000 its almost like I know what im doing πŸ˜„ [09-Aug-24 10:17 AM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/hulk-hogan-flex-flexes-flexing-wwe-gif-13189000 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/hulk-hogan-flex-flexes-flexing-wwe-gif-13189000 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/cRqYuXPDxdg5DcJ__zMjN6dd7Y5pMrg6emTAcXathv0/https/media.tenor.com/R8xv_IJ5Q9gAAAAe/hulk-hogan-flex.png [09-Aug-24 10:19 AM] jcheung#0000 my expectations were way, way lower πŸ˜‚ like maybe 5x pop change not 15x [09-Aug-24 10:20 AM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/viva-la-dirt-league-vldl-souls-logic-dark-souls-git-gud-gif-19856700 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/viva-la-dirt-league-vldl-souls-logic-dark-souls-git-gud-gif-19856700 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/NUWZB0XeZ-Bb3C-jXWoLB_O9Lzp-Zsc-g9DTU_x9eJ4/https/media.tenor.com/m5LBMW0NnAgAAAAe/viva-la-dirt-league-vldl.png {Reactions} 🀣 [09-Aug-24 02:22 PM] realharvey#0000 happy little accidents? [09-Aug-24 04:08 PM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/it-wasnt-an-accident-wednesday-addams-jenna-ortega-wednesday-it-was-planned-gif-27427018 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/it-wasnt-an-accident-wednesday-addams-jenna-ortega-wednesday-it-was-planned-gif-27427018 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/cQnGYBCrPLK9gHW3fi99HN8G8dOWPwA4lUKZhB5FfcU/https/media.tenor.com/-YAiJn3unF0AAAAe/it-wasnt-an-accident-wednesday-addams.png [09-Aug-24 04:23 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 https://tenor.com/view/bob-ross-happy-accidents-gif-7215839 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/bob-ross-happy-accidents-gif-7215839 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/_iquUMWso7IPBeXuQKlpjfgpKlh-uIZ8ynIdKT61l6g/https/media.tenor.com/wTIL_-_npaUAAAAe/bob-ross.png [09-Aug-24 10:13 PM] riseoffilth#0000 @parisinspringtime See my prices for gov materials in the https://discord.com/channels/1183243037430796339/1268787348414664826 channel {Reactions} ✌️ [14-Aug-24 05:52 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Hmm, I have a short-ish question. This ain't exactly Antares Area, but I'd think it would be a good example, to anyone who is/will find themselves in the same situation. I've read through Archiel's Gov Guide; the question regards anything that I might have missed, after parsing over that planets' stuff, over the past 3 days, since I'm backtracking for #reasons, while also having not much info, as I'm not directly responsible for its health/operation. Basically #Verdant [ PLI YI-715b ] | [ POPR YI-715b ] | [ POPI YI-715b ]. That planet is extremely heavy on the PIO side of the POPR, with severe unemployment. Running any POPI upkeep makes no sense, as it'll only be needless expense. Its main problem, lies with the #education_centipede --- losing PIOs, to SETs, who just migrate out due to the aforementioned unemployment. The best solution that I could come up with, is just to let the PIOs dwindle down to a set target figure (10-15k surplus PIOs), and then pulse (run full POPI + Festivities 3) for at least a week, to get a huge influx of spare PIOs, that will buffer out the POPR's weekly changes, for 2+ months, per job.... Is this the most cost-efficient approach to this sort of thing? Am I missing anything? {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1273232830037626880/Screenshot_from_2024-08-14_05-23-00.png?ex=6814a3fa&is=6813527a&hm=92181e0ec291911b3fe097854ea6920ee21205f63b9aa6768cde8d2d288360d6& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1273232830394269807/Screenshot_from_2024-08-14_05-23-06.png?ex=6814a3fa&is=6813527a&hm=297c66dd488b9c004955ca63d1d023a49b2d4e1b860e46d0ae44e6d26338fb87& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1273232830691938406/Screenshot_from_2024-08-14_05-23-18.png?ex=6814a3fa&is=6813527a&hm=112c236532805d5029fc891e5c6fc6a811f41cd26f5f476d5bf53420753bcb0c& [14-Aug-24 06:52 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Yeah, occasionally waves of upkeep like is the cost effective method of managing unemployment like that from what I've heard. I haven't tried it myself yet though [14-Aug-24 11:01 AM] archielvahr#0000 Keep in mind there is a delayed effect from POPI satisfaction turning into happiness. [14-Aug-24 11:04 AM] archielvahr#0000 So flipping to full POPI / empty POPI has a delayed effect. It is modeled in the javascript on the sheet, and I considered adding it "See that TODO on the projected true happy" line. But I don't really know of a way to show it to a user that is meaningful and useful to them- outside of some sort of multi-week population projection tool. [14-Aug-24 11:07 AM] archielvahr#0000 I think there's a handful of possible techniques, but no obvious best answer. In particular for the sheet you posted for Verdant, your education centipede doesn't require any engineers or scientists.. so basically you just have unemployment across the board. [14-Aug-24 11:12 AM] archielvahr#0000 If you have 260k PIOs with 8% unemployment plus 18k SET at 25% unemployment and 400 techs at 40% unemployment... you can basically ignore the SET and Techs. The percentage isn't important to upkeep, only the total is. And that's pretty close to 8% unemployment overall. which isn't a bad number. the set and techs don't contribute that much to the needs or costs of the planet (check the charts and tables in the bottom right of the sheet). As unemployment increases, the happiness of those tiers decrease, so the problem sort of solves itself, especially when employment of those tiers is low. As far as educating up PIOs as a vector of PIO loss, I think your idea is a very good approach if you don't mind micromanaging it that way. A quick festival (or anything that pops you up to 75% happiness will give you a burst of workers in each tier that will take quite a while to bleed away [14-Aug-24 11:12 AM] archielvahr#0000 festivals take effect immediately rather than the weighted 4 or 5 week popi ramp {Reactions} πŸ€” [16-Aug-24 10:48 PM] archielvahr#0000 So I think the one thing ANT is missing that other regions have... we just have fewer starter planets. But I bet if we petitioned molp to build up another starter planet, as long as it's triple green, we could pick one with a nice COGC that is noob friendly. When new players are making starting planet choices, they are sort of picking randomly- they don't know ANT is the best. So us being down a couple planets really cuts into our fresh blood. Add the annoyance that Phobos isn't a great starting place anyway.... [16-Aug-24 10:49 PM] archielvahr#0000 people get way too excited about promitor, cause you can run a high efficiency base with a bunch of FRMs and wooooo, you got a 40k/d base like that's the epitome of base design. We could do way better with another COGC, even for noobs [16-Aug-24 10:53 PM] .urpalhal#0000 They can just plop in a new planet [16-Aug-24 10:54 PM] archielvahr#0000 I feel like we'd be more likely to get it if we used an existing one, but that's a good ask too [16-Aug-24 10:55 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I mean nascent is triple green and closeish, but I’m not aware of any others [16-Aug-24 10:55 PM] .urpalhal#0000 But also ALO and C aren’t great for noobs [16-Aug-24 10:57 PM] archielvahr#0000 Norwick as food processing, but I don't think that's a starting package. [16-Aug-24 10:57 PM] archielvahr#0000 I think C is a common start, but that includes the farming part [16-Aug-24 10:58 PM] archielvahr#0000 I know noobs tend to think they need to be vertically integrated (especially on a single planet). I'm not sure if that's a feature or not. [16-Aug-24 10:58 PM] archielvahr#0000 They can't grow HCP on Nascent, so maybe that's out. [16-Aug-24 10:58 PM] tanda#0000 what other diversified start would you think of? [16-Aug-24 10:58 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Is Harmonia a starter? [16-Aug-24 10:59 PM] archielvahr#0000 I haven't made an account in forever, so I'm not sure what the starting packages even are. [16-Aug-24 10:59 PM] tanda#0000 and by that I mean COGC [16-Aug-24 10:59 PM] tanda#0000 it's Deimos Phobos Harmonia right now [16-Aug-24 10:59 PM] tanda#0000 and yes, Phobos reallllly needs to be flipped off of Electronics [16-Aug-24 11:00 PM] archielvahr#0000 I saw this getting shared again: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UUmjz8XNgLJ6y_XJa_hn7JPc9FWftqR2Lx9McZi-X-0/edit?gid=0#gid=0 {Embed} https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UUmjz8XNgLJ6y_XJa_hn7JPc9FWftqR2Lx9McZi-X-0/edit?gid=0 PU Community Start Demand https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Zfd_UMnx3oTnkanGUitIRQE-zbbtQNnuuaf18h_Vp3c/https/lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docs/AHkbwyLwf9wIArtZ10ZB73j34tRLa80PQ80eqb86ZlpSP7wRVbaftCNEjsX6fZ-Cp7QkLfItKfEWqNMvSP9GeoRWwVZsBlORa3C3l8Pp2xtggrKmQinwsbxh%3Dw1200-h630-p [16-Aug-24 11:00 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Uh let’s see Manufacturer Metalurgy Victiculler Fuel Refining [16-Aug-24 11:00 PM] tanda#0000 a triple green with fertility and proximity to CX is truly wasted on Electronics {Reactions} πŸ‘ [16-Aug-24 11:01 PM] archielvahr#0000 Which is kinda... "Go to phobos and make FRMs or carbon" [16-Aug-24 11:01 PM] archielvahr#0000 oof, you're not wrong about Phobos, but it'd be a really tough sell.. sooo many bases and so much high tech population there [16-Aug-24 11:02 PM] tanda#0000 what the heck is with that sheet [16-Aug-24 11:02 PM] archielvahr#0000 There's some whacky stuff on that sheet too [16-Aug-24 11:02 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Why isn’t Deimos β€œover populated” in there [16-Aug-24 11:02 PM] archielvahr#0000 "This planet has a very large number of extra bases on it of new players and thus drives the demand down for its normally high suitability jobs." [16-Aug-24 11:03 PM] archielvahr#0000 That must be some relic from the local market times [16-Aug-24 11:03 PM] tanda#0000 Carbon's demand varies by planet despite them all using the same exchange, Metallurgy's demand in ANT is "low" [16-Aug-24 11:05 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Who made this document [16-Aug-24 11:05 PM] archielvahr#0000 Anyway players could start on Heph and it's just as suitable for everything as Phobos. [16-Aug-24 11:06 PM] archielvahr#0000 Dunno, it's been floating around for years. I used it when I picked Harmonia [16-Aug-24 11:06 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Is heph triple green? [16-Aug-24 11:06 PM] archielvahr#0000 yup [16-Aug-24 11:06 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I’m on my phone and taxiing to the runway so [16-Aug-24 11:06 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Sorry for the dumb question 🀣 [16-Aug-24 11:06 PM] archielvahr#0000 But the main point: Ant only has 3 planets, but Benten has 6. And people pick stuff at random, Benten is gonna get 2x as many new players [16-Aug-24 11:07 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I picked ANT on Vibes {Reactions} 😁 [16-Aug-24 11:07 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Thats how my whole operation is run [16-Aug-24 11:08 PM] .urpalhal#0000 ✨vibes✨ [16-Aug-24 11:10 PM] tanda#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274218758302470235/Screenshot_2024-08-16_211016.png?ex=6814ee71&is=68139cf1&hm=32dc40c9825981e8bb79a2af1272fe1a5e1bd89f15b53f285564b2eb83d07292& [16-Aug-24 11:10 PM] tanda#0000 Triple greens near ANT [16-Aug-24 11:10 PM] tanda#0000 Heph is really the only candidate {Reactions} πŸ‘† [16-Aug-24 11:11 PM] tanda#0000 I really hate how many fertile planets around ANT are just coopted {Reactions} πŸ‘ [16-Aug-24 11:11 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I mean they’re less than 90% fertility [16-Aug-24 11:12 PM] tanda#0000 we have 5 fertile planets, lol [16-Aug-24 11:12 PM] tanda#0000 2 out of 5 have the proper COGC [16-Aug-24 11:12 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Time for terraforming! [16-Aug-24 11:12 PM] .urpalhal#0000 And fertilizer for normal Farms [16-Aug-24 11:13 PM] .urpalhal#0000 This is a game with interstellar space travel after all [16-Aug-24 11:17 PM] archielvahr#0000 Yeaaaaaaah, I mean FRMs kinda just suck anyway, so I don't feel too bad about it. The starter packs like to push new players towards FRM bases.. and of course someone needs to do it, otherwise the prices of them would rise [16-Aug-24 11:17 PM] tanda#0000 well it's no fix to the starter issue, but I'm manufacturing MHL now {Reactions} πŸ™Œ [16-Aug-24 11:34 PM] jcheung#0000 i saw that too. it bugs me, a lot [17-Aug-24 12:37 AM] jvaler#0000 it's quite old afaik [17-Aug-24 12:37 AM] jvaler#0000 heph is goated though, it should 100% be the next starter planet [17-Aug-24 12:38 AM] jvaler#0000 no longer must manufacturers toil away on phobos [17-Aug-24 12:38 AM] jvaler#0000 though i shudder to imagine the heph SIO EXT... [17-Aug-24 12:39 AM] jcheung#0000 every time i look at phobos i get annoyed {Reactions} πŸ’― 😾 [17-Aug-24 12:40 AM] jvaler#0000 we could have had 2 harmonias {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274241372454387762/image.png?ex=68150381&is=6813b201&hm=538884abfc02346d8a22ee9ed1e49f7d24f7360d3d5b80de23c458b5da2cd616& [17-Aug-24 12:40 AM] jvaler#0000 but no [17-Aug-24 12:40 AM] jvaler#0000 MM farmers forbid it [17-Aug-24 12:41 AM] jcheung#0000 they, of all people, can afford to be on a triple red [17-Aug-24 12:41 AM] jvaler#0000 exactlyy [17-Aug-24 01:29 AM] akyantor#0000 I think the options when I started were Phobos, Demios, Harmonia. I ended up on Harmonia [17-Aug-24 06:52 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Well, Antares is actually better suited for farming than Insitor is. All of those easily do FRM processes. The main issue is the water deposits --- there's not enough density here for high-volume HYF processes. Making the FIM/MEA and the dank drinks is not an issue, but the basic stuff is.... And the COGCs are determined by player votes - we all know this - but people dive straight in from the metrics/advice, to do what everyone else is doing. So from early universe, to now, we have a bunch of players with some intense investment bias in keeping all of those planets AS-IS. I do wonder though, if the early-universe meta priorities were different, we might be sitting in a #Green-Antares today. [17-Aug-24 06:58 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Heh, out of the hundreds of players on Deimos.... Only 12 voted for the current COGC. [17-Aug-24 06:59 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 A random thought.... What if a Galactic "Deal" was posted in UFO, promoting #Make_Antares_Green_Again?!?, giving the newbros grants/subsidies, to grow on one of those planets, and to also vote for the COGC? [17-Aug-24 07:09 AM] flor2081#0000 it's not like you really need that many green planets [17-Aug-24 07:09 AM] flor2081#0000 and i'm not sure it's worth it, trying to fight all those electronics people [17-Aug-24 07:09 AM] flor2081#0000 there's no way you're gonna outnumber those [17-Aug-24 07:09 AM] flor2081#0000 even though only 12 voted, there's way more people with pro there that will vote whenever you threaten the cogc [17-Aug-24 07:11 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yep. #investment-bias. [17-Aug-24 07:11 AM] flor2081#0000 well [17-Aug-24 07:11 AM] flor2081#0000 if those people would all switch to FRM/HYF right now [17-Aug-24 07:11 AM] flor2081#0000 they'd lose a shit ton of profit [17-Aug-24 07:12 AM] flor2081#0000 so not really a bias there πŸ˜„ [17-Aug-24 07:12 AM] flor2081#0000 just go to prom and be happy (: [17-Aug-24 07:13 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Prom's not good enough. [17-Aug-24 07:13 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I need moar. [17-Aug-24 07:13 AM] flor2081#0000 i still wouldnt go for the -6% on phobos hahah [17-Aug-24 07:14 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 It's still an all-green planet, with fertility. Even if it's not the best, it could be used for a better purpose.... Lets see. [17-Aug-24 07:15 AM] flor2081#0000 i mean, go ahead and try [17-Aug-24 07:15 AM] flor2081#0000 just saying, i doubt it'll work [17-Aug-24 07:15 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Just exile all the MM bros to YA-471. [17-Aug-24 07:16 AM] flor2081#0000 doubt fire will like it if you eat all his people lol [17-Aug-24 07:17 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 He doesn't have to like it. He will just have to react to the market demand, and be a better gov? idk lol. [17-Aug-24 07:32 AM] realharvey#0000 flipping the COGC on well established planets is literally the worst thing you can do for Antares. A lot of people would have to move their bases. You dont want to make them angry. It will especially hit more lategame players. These are the guys that give out grants and throw cash at people to help them grow. You dont want to make those guys angry [17-Aug-24 07:34 AM] flor2081#0000 i mean, the entire point of this idea was to make them angry [17-Aug-24 07:34 AM] flor2081#0000 so yea 🀷 [17-Aug-24 07:37 AM] marat_sh#0000 Rich getting angry? No no no We can’t have that [17-Aug-24 09:49 AM] marat_sh#0000 @riseoffilth since you are gov of many ANT planets. What's your take on that? I think it would help a lot to new bros (like me when I had to relocate my starting base from phobos to heph) [17-Aug-24 02:14 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I absolutely think Heph should be a starter planet over Phobos. 100%, no doubt. [17-Aug-24 02:15 PM] riseoffilth#0000 But additionally, (also @archielvahr ), I think Nascent would make a great starter planet [17-Aug-24 02:15 PM] riseoffilth#0000 if we were looking to expand starter planet candidates [17-Aug-24 02:15 PM] riseoffilth#0000 a dedicated RES planet thats 3x green? Huge for anyone making C [17-Aug-24 02:37 PM] archielvahr#0000 Yeah Nascent would be great. The only struggle there is that the starter packs want you to build farms and it's not fertile. Asking for a new starter pack ( aka profession ) is probably too big an ask [17-Aug-24 02:38 PM] archielvahr#0000 ALO extraction on Nascent is pretty good too for noobs [17-Aug-24 02:39 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I mean you could do use the metallurgy starter pack to get some EXT up {Reactions} πŸ‘† (2) [17-Aug-24 02:40 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Or carbon farmer and make INC [17-Aug-24 02:40 PM] .urpalhal#0000 But the tutorial in game wouldn’t explain that very well [17-Aug-24 03:01 PM] tanda#0000 that would be the only starter planet to immediately require shipping, though? [17-Aug-24 03:04 PM] riseoffilth#0000 ALO and C prices support it, they got 2 ships for a reason πŸ˜„ [17-Aug-24 03:05 PM] tanda#0000 definitely not a 3 star starter planet then [17-Aug-24 03:08 PM] archielvahr#0000 I think it's gotta work with the starter packs to really work, you've got to assume the noob is _only_ reading the in-game tutorial. So while Nike would be great, they won't have SEA. I am pretty sure the "Carbon Farmer" pack asks you to build a farm, so it requires a fertile planet. [17-Aug-24 03:13 PM] riseoffilth#0000 is there no extractor start pack? [17-Aug-24 03:22 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Nope [17-Aug-24 03:25 PM] akyantor#0000 That's correct. carbon farmer is frm+inc {Reactions} πŸ‘ [17-Aug-24 03:49 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I think the devs incorporated high attrition rates for new players, when they're trying out the game, especially when they have no exposure to Prun's genre. Potentially low retention rates, very niche interactivity, and a very high learning curve. It's probably why the starter packs are so flaccid, and don't really impact market volumes, until that newbro decides to stick with the game, and expand. So I think it's very unlikely that we'll see changes to the starter packs/planets any time soon. However it's not stopping anyone from offering more possibility to new bros, if they meet like some basic requirements (like having PRO), as in offering second starter-paks, to say C-farmers who started out on Harmonia. **So a Nascent C-farmer, but no fertility?** Well you can still grow HCP on Nascent, and burn the C, however you just gotta compromise on some things. Trigger warning? (this one will probably make some people mad, LOL). {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274470140167327905/Screenshot_from_2024-08-17_15-46-42.png?ex=6814870f&is=6813358f&hm=e05fbbd0ac07d8bdfcf3ec9d5b0357814045ab7a9b1f212e92d21874fb45170c& [17-Aug-24 05:39 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 you could always build in Eastern Antares, the farming is *great* out here. Etherwind for water, Proxion, Nemesis, and Pyrgos all amazing for FRM, HYF + FP planet combos in the Etherwind and Bastion-Milliways systems. HRT who? 😝 [17-Aug-24 07:17 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Eastern is Demeter+ ? [17-Aug-24 07:20 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yas. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274523308599279696/Screenshot_from_2024-08-17_19-18-29.png?ex=6814b894&is=68136714&hm=df6f7509e925fcdad72e1f599723039ebb38a1bc84144fbd5088afe2007c3727& [17-Aug-24 08:18 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 yeah idk why I always think of Benten as being Northeast of Antares in my head... it's just like... directly north. So I guess norther antares... [17-Aug-24 08:18 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 in my head it looks more like this {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274537927116062781/image.png?ex=6814c631&is=681374b1&hm=f885499284b53dff8583b727dfbf28f45b848aae7f75423e3b4bf574a9ca8508& [17-Aug-24 08:19 PM] jcheung#0000 i wonder if gateways will let us bridge gaps like this {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274538224823435316/image.png?ex=6814c678&is=681374f8&hm=53ff97cdc6f8be92f1e9646a2de2a9d721e0aca5a7997a23f8eddd4b9d6f78b1& [17-Aug-24 08:21 PM] tanda#0000 it's too bad we don't know what direction the galaxy is rotating in. Then the only directions that would matter is spinward and widdershins [17-Aug-24 08:25 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 for real. I would pay so much money to jump Etherwind to BEN... {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274539617076514919/image.png?ex=6814c7c4&is=68137644&hm=d7780b1b888a1c2d1876f8c196ed63686d914a6669f5357ebc98633b5e4ac066& [17-Aug-24 08:27 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Also LE-137 to A3 would be beautiful [17-Aug-24 08:30 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 (also just snooping around, LE-137c is the only populated planet in that system, only has 6 bases and it's like 6 of the biggest players in the game... whatcha doin' out there on secret electronics planet @riseoffilth πŸ˜† ) {Reactions} πŸ€” [17-Aug-24 08:40 PM] jcheung#0000 https://tenor.com/LFyv.gif {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/megamind-evil-lair-theres-no-place-shut-door-gif-8938809 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/oVOB4kyAq08T19VDcbeIozc3PTyck0E5uiBT5NxyuqM/https/media.tenor.com/QiHW7YqfegMAAAAe/megamind-evil-lair.png {Reactions} πŸ˜† [17-Aug-24 08:41 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Lol... The whole map is Antares.... People are just suffering from an identity crisis, for the past 3+ years. {Reactions} πŸ’― [17-Aug-24 08:44 PM] riseoffilth#0000 you should see next door [17-Aug-24 08:44 PM] riseoffilth#0000 LS-014 [17-Aug-24 08:44 PM] riseoffilth#0000 i have 3 planets there [17-Aug-24 08:45 PM] riseoffilth#0000 all doing secret things {Reactions} πŸ˜† [17-Aug-24 08:46 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 APF | AAF electronic inputs, nice. [17-Aug-24 08:47 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Also SPF, but iirc, there's just 1 thing that's largely needed, from it. [17-Aug-24 08:47 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 being the ACS :/ [17-Aug-24 08:48 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ewww, capacitor | S/M/L emitter inputs [17-Aug-24 08:50 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 They likely will, but seeing though as everything in-prun-space, is a 3d projection, based off-of coordinates, that we will never know, it'll be hard to guess approximate values for those. [17-Aug-24 08:52 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 But, I'd wager that the devs would incorporate some sort of exponential cost, for using the gateways: * 1) Planetary gov contracts some corp to construct the gateway in orbit * 2) Contracted corp points the gateway to some target (exponential costs with increased target distance, from origin?) * 3) Contract corp funds maintenance fuel/repair costs for the gateway, and charges fees per instance of use * 4) There will be a utility curve, expressed mechanically (which we will likely never figure out); most contracted operators will likely figure things out after 1-3 months of intense operation. [17-Aug-24 08:55 PM] tanda#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274547126440820847/20240812.png?ex=6814cec2&is=68137d42&hm=f84aa6992cd3622f59b9a85a185943b81af9ec92faef30396eb8aadcd542dd44& [17-Aug-24 08:55 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ye. [17-Aug-24 08:55 PM] archielvahr#0000 saves 3 jumps at 11.7 parsecs [17-Aug-24 08:55 PM] tanda#0000 one of the biggest limitations for Gateways is going to be the number of jumps they can accomodate [17-Aug-24 08:55 PM] archielvahr#0000 http://kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-17_20-55-21.png {Embed} http://kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-17_20-55-21.png https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/xoaCvwLRJnBm7oIzu_nLn6GYJCSt85J44ZGu2up61z0/http/kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-17_20-55-21.png [17-Aug-24 08:55 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'm not wagering anything, until I see the final release notes + the update notes. [17-Aug-24 08:55 PM] archielvahr#0000 No need to guess, we have gateway distance calculation tools already! [17-Aug-24 08:56 PM] tanda#0000 that's already on the test server? [17-Aug-24 08:56 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yes, but the devs might apply magnitudes of cost. [17-Aug-24 08:56 PM] archielvahr#0000 They said the linking radius is in parsecs, we don't know the ranges though, so it's still speculation [17-Aug-24 08:56 PM] archielvahr#0000 Nah, this tool is at https://oogcapitalmanagement.com/map/ [17-Aug-24 08:56 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Parsec is a range, btw. [17-Aug-24 08:57 PM] archielvahr#0000 If you click "pathfinding" and two systems, it will tell you the number of parsecs between them [17-Aug-24 08:58 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Let me pop another beer, before I type some "prudent recommendations" in terms of cost efficiencies, strategically (just my thoughts). [17-Aug-24 09:00 PM] archielvahr#0000 We also have python tools to find the biggest number of jumps saved for a gateway of a given length {Reactions} πŸ‘€ [17-Aug-24 09:02 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 wow that's a nice little system. You and Evo doing all sorts of fun evil stuff I bet [17-Aug-24 09:02 PM] archielvahr#0000 like 16 jumps over 20 parsecs is fairly common, but a lot of those are from one arm of the galaxy to another, so not a lot of action out there [17-Aug-24 09:03 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 bridges out here would be so good for ARC though [17-Aug-24 09:03 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1274549239854272515/image.png?ex=6814d0ba&is=68137f3a&hm=3decace12c9c923e46deb123d170253e29c1307eb89c476c6be4445cc5cf1225& [17-Aug-24 09:04 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 This might eventually involve several things. If those gateways would require some sort of jump-fuel, for operation, you might eventually see STLs hauling around FF tanks, or FTLs donating fuel, if ever these gateways become more time-efficient than manual jumps. We'll find these things out when the release notes get published, however my focus on this is on the strategic aspect. * 1) My initial guestimate --- 1 gateway per planet, initially. * 2) This limitation confers a means of limiting activity, which the devs apparently like to impose * 3) Recommendations of COGC Activity + STL inclusion in these things * ANT CX (Hephaestus) ---> Deimos ---> Nike ---> Hephaestus *Bober --> Nascent --> Vulcan --> Bober * Linking related COGC chains, in one-way routings.... You guys will have to decide how it'll look like though [17-Aug-24 09:12 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Each CX, has a # of planets, which will require an ADM (1+mil of capital donation, if not evident at release, per ADM at a CX-system planet), which will provide for a centrally distributed gateway network. Each path could provide service for a particular industry-to-industry production chain. Not only do you need the ADMs, + Gateways, you also need someone running stuff on those planets to provide GOV/PM voting ability to said gateway projects. I'll say that it's best to organize now, since per the dev log notes, it looks like this sort of thing is what we'll be dealing with, at least initially. [17-Aug-24 09:17 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 East Antares will need a dev-installed CX though. You can max out West Antares routings through the few planets within ZV-307's system, as-is. Without another CX, you'll be cutting off the outer-rim extraction possibilities (if there is any), out there from ANT. [17-Aug-24 09:26 PM] jcheung#0000 eww. so they ARE limited by jump lanes? [17-Aug-24 09:26 PM] jcheung#0000 lame [17-Aug-24 09:28 PM] tanda#0000 I think there's a certain number of jumps they can do per day [17-Aug-24 09:28 PM] tanda#0000 at least looking at that UI [17-Aug-24 09:33 PM] .urpalhal#0000 So they will need upgrades to allow more ships through, but also how big of ships they can allow through and also how far those ships can go [17-Aug-24 09:33 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Wow [17-Aug-24 09:33 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 "Capacity upgrades" [17-Aug-24 09:34 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Number of ships I would think [17-Aug-24 09:34 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Volume will likely defer to your ship's m3 stats, not the cargo bays... [17-Aug-24 09:34 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Yeah so the size of ships [17-Aug-24 09:34 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Distance, we already talked about. [17-Aug-24 09:41 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 O_O [17-Aug-24 09:41 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 **Eve Online flashbacks** [17-Aug-24 09:41 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Jump gate ques...... [17-Aug-24 09:42 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 That'll be spicy. Smaller ships get preference, or would a "queue" be preferred? Lots of variables rn. [17-Aug-24 09:42 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Queues? [17-Aug-24 09:42 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Like a line [17-Aug-24 09:42 PM] .urpalhal#0000 ? [17-Aug-24 09:42 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ye [17-Aug-24 09:42 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Maybe [20-Aug-24 01:15 PM] jcheung#0000 out of curiousity, what does it take to raise engineers? [20-Aug-24 01:15 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Antidepressants {Reactions} πŸ˜† (3) [20-Aug-24 01:15 PM] jcheung#0000 i said engineers, not me [20-Aug-24 01:15 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Yeah no applies [20-Aug-24 01:16 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Anywho education and their needs being met [20-Aug-24 01:16 PM] .urpalhal#0000 So that the in is greater than the out [20-Aug-24 01:21 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 That depends, care to drop a POPR screenie? [20-Aug-24 01:22 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 A good TEC pop pool, will usually have a natural education rate... If you don't have such, then other methods can be applied, to generate an ENG pool, out of nowhere, but they will be expensive. [20-Aug-24 01:29 PM] jcheung#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1275522078099116122/image.png?ex=68150f01&is=6813bd81&hm=20762b32f6502eb5009596b753f9c62da204a30710573b1c712f327ffff7884a& [20-Aug-24 01:29 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ENG provision, can otherwise be engineered, by either investing tens of millions into artificial education rates (PBH|LIB|UNI upgrade drops -- no upkeep) and/or ART upgrades + upkeeps. [20-Aug-24 01:29 PM] jcheung#0000 (looks like inf ran out of upkeep materials too) [20-Aug-24 01:31 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yep. OOF, FEST.3 --- will the gov be able to keep it up, though? [20-Aug-24 01:31 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 POPI levels? [20-Aug-24 01:32 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ohh noes, i can just grab it myself [20-Aug-24 01:32 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Tis Agamennon, LOL, btw. [20-Aug-24 01:33 PM] jcheung#0000 mmmhmmm. originally i was going to keep it to PIO, SET, TEC... which would have been fine... checked pop for those... needed to add some eng jobs and didn't look at pop for eng [20-Aug-24 01:34 PM] jcheung#0000 so was just curious as to how hard it was to raise engi count [20-Aug-24 01:34 PM] jcheung#0000 and what it would cost [20-Aug-24 01:36 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Lol... Boost up INF to lv 3 ---> supply at least the T1 goodies (OFF). {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1275523819796168756/Screenshot_from_2024-08-20_13-35-34.png?ex=681510a0&is=6813bf20&hm=81d8b73866dc9a4f55111a434db61774eaf884b433e0a8d9552a7ea0f5294dbd& [20-Aug-24 01:36 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 let me double check in the sheetz. [20-Aug-24 01:40 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 What you want (left), vs. what you've got (right). {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1275524927906250762/Screenshot_from_2024-08-20_13-40-05.png?ex=681511a8&is=6813c028&hm=57100f183a8d9263013257553793b226ae91a130470ec9cdb6ed8eedaaabdd8e& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1275524928212566036/Screenshot_from_2024-08-20_13-40-15.png?ex=681511a8&is=6813c028&hm=ddf2ddd2389217bb3e4e576e2498352d30abf0945314192e9e76404e7c586477& [20-Aug-24 01:41 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 17 ENGs per term is the natural rate. FEST III is propping the average figure up, artificially. [20-Aug-24 01:43 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Import OFF, apply to INF; set INF to level 3 --- that planet has a tierable POPR, which is much, much easier to deal with, than a PIO heavy POPR. [20-Aug-24 01:43 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ~20k additional weekly expenses. [20-Aug-24 01:44 PM] jcheung#0000 so it would take... 4 weeks for my fuck-up to clear naturally assuming the gov fills the right stuff? interesting. [20-Aug-24 01:44 PM] jcheung#0000 thanks for the info [20-Aug-24 01:46 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ~~~ lets see, [20-Aug-24 01:46 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 1-2 weeks. [20-Aug-24 01:46 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 **not bad** [20-Aug-24 01:47 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Once you have the OFF mats applied, pulse Festivities 1 or 2. It'll cover the underwhelming averages in the previous weeks, and bring you up to par... Hopefully. [20-Aug-24 01:48 PM] jcheung#0000 well, *i* don't have control [20-Aug-24 01:48 PM] jcheung#0000 i was just curious as to what it takes to iron it out [20-Aug-24 01:49 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 That's pretty much it --- Idk if those in control would be noticing it though.... [20-Aug-24 01:49 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 200 engineers, over what? [20-Aug-24 01:49 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 33k POP, underneath? [20-Aug-24 01:50 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Get people willing to commit to more ENG bases, and have them scream in the planetary chat. {Reactions} 🀣 [20-Aug-24 01:53 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 This is also a concern. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1275528097671680122/Screenshot_from_2024-08-20_13-52-56.png?ex=6815149c&is=6813c31c&hm=288762bc667132c6098b717c2fc61746ce770237a4cb3452bac4a3e6f16424a1& [20-Aug-24 01:53 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Cut those MAX needs, by 1/3rds? {Reactions} 🀷 [20-Aug-24 01:54 PM] jcheung#0000 looks like new management is taking over next week [20-Aug-24 01:54 PM] jcheung#0000 err. this week? [20-Aug-24 01:54 PM] jcheung#0000 something [20-Aug-24 02:00 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Apparently.... Most of those tiered pop needs should be covered by the Life support (bases) + Satefy (SSTs). It's only when you're counting up higher tiers, that Health and Comfort come into play. Comfort's already covered by current POPI uses, it's just the Health, which is used by TECs to foster growth, but also by ENGs to maintain happiness, and pull in TEC education, from marginally increased happiness #s. [20-Aug-24 02:01 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 But 20k AIC per week, for the INF lv 3(OFF) upkeeps, is not much compared to the 36k AIC per week (manually done btw) for the Festivities 3. [20-Aug-24 02:02 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 >.> (double checked POPI)... they're doing more than that.... [20-Aug-24 02:03 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 You just gotta wait. :/ {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1275530703718715413/Screenshot_from_2024-08-20_14-03-20.png?ex=68151709&is=6813c589&hm=d0055349cb83d42100b5b3331cde52db6237d6ce60b0006bb3e875e1858ba519& [20-Aug-24 10:05 PM] riseoffilth#0000 an immigration program. To keep them? a sufficient amount of safety, health, and comfort. [22-Aug-24 10:04 AM] marat_sh#0000 @riseoffilth are you going to keep LS-014 a/b/c as electronics COGC? [22-Aug-24 10:04 AM] marat_sh#0000 what is a future plan for this system? [22-Aug-24 10:26 AM] riseoffilth#0000 That is the plan [22-Aug-24 10:26 AM] riseoffilth#0000 Keep doing what it’s doing [22-Aug-24 10:27 AM] marat_sh#0000 ~~all 3? πŸ˜… What base blueprint do you suggest?~~ [22-Aug-24 10:28 AM] marat_sh#0000 ~~I hope it's not another IDC base~~ nvm I've got some interesting blueprints [22-Aug-24 10:48 AM] realharvey#0000 Rise does no filthy idc business {Reactions} πŸ™ (2) [22-Aug-24 11:16 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'd recommend trying to maintain stable market supply, on the things that matter (ANT has ran out of a b-fab market, for quite the long time. SF/FF are pretty much next in line, with how things are going)... As to why..... ``` Note the money supply, and market maker balances. 5.003 bil in AIC supply.... -6.329 bil in AIC sinks.... [Most recent dev economic report] ``` The disparity is only increasing through time. Instead of being able to circulate currency between various industries of production, we'll dolling out heavy figures on basic MM provisions, and then have to rely on EDC/IDC farms to supplement market liquidity. I can't tell you why we're experiencing sky high prices atm... It's probably due to other factors. [22-Aug-24 11:51 AM] marat_sh#0000 Influx of new bros? Plus people are switching to more advanced products with higher margins [22-Aug-24 11:52 AM] marat_sh#0000 IDC shouldn’t be a thing in my opinion [22-Aug-24 11:59 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 It is, unfortunately. The advanced production that you mentioned, is driving IDC margins to be better than EDCs. A-fabs and MEA. :/ [22-Aug-24 01:13 PM] archielvahr#0000 Where did you see 6.329 bil in AIC sinks? The sinks are reported as positive numbers, like the bfabs and consumables, which have only grown a few dozen mil during that month. The negative "Marketmaker balance total" reflects the money introduced from EDC/IDC sales. If you look at the Money Supply, you can see the Last AIC is 4.59b compared to the min of 4.25b, so the money supply of AIC increased 340m. The marketmaker balance total went from -5,148m to -5,557m, so 409m new AIC was introduced from market makers. The difference from money supply to market maker balance means (409-340 = 69m) 69m AIC was removed from circulation via non marketmaker means (aka quitting players or maybe the APEX center). When a big player quits like Churv you can usually see the bump down in money supply. Somone with NCC and other currencies had their account deleted 5/30, you can see a bump there: {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1276242859292626954/5a518b2cbc6521456c21d9adb10c2204cc31e49b.jpeg?ex=68150b49&is=6813b9c9&hm=27047ef8a17d7cc4cdb90caeb949758d29bc055fba1a60f71f6588e02987d45b& [22-Aug-24 01:15 PM] archielvahr#0000 oops that's an older report. But you can see where Churavis quit in July on this one: http://kortham.net/temp/firefox_2024-08-22_13-15-01.png [22-Aug-24 01:28 PM] marat_sh#0000 > (409-340 = 69m) 69m AIC [22-Aug-24 01:28 PM] marat_sh#0000 https://tenor.com/view/nice-click-nice-man-guy-gif-21933845 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/nice-click-nice-man-guy-gif-21933845 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/128mVjWw_QmX2FEub_wwPSq6zieUez3SlhQmJLlFv2c/https/media.tenor.com/MopLUl6IyssAAAAe/nice-click-nice.png [22-Aug-24 01:58 PM] flor2081#0000 ah is that increase in your equity because of churv quitting? [22-Aug-24 01:58 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I still don't like the format of such reports, if it is of such nature, as you described. [22-Aug-24 01:59 PM] archielvahr#0000 Heh nope, he dumped all this money into the APEX, that's why the money supply went down. Would have stayed stable if he sent it to someone else [22-Aug-24 02:04 PM] flor2081#0000 yeah i thought so, just seemed like a big coincidence that those 2 overlapped haha [22-Aug-24 02:06 PM] flor2081#0000 or that he gave you his stockpiles [22-Aug-24 07:29 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 big loss of money recently was xensored. well over 1b in assets and he COLIQd [22-Aug-24 07:31 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Xensored is gone 😦 ? [22-Aug-24 07:55 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 yep, a couple weeks ago. Apex and discord accounts deleted, just... ghosted. He was helping us with all sorts of stuff just 1 day before... {Reactions} πŸ€” [22-Aug-24 07:56 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 He was working with our new shipbuilding team and helping fill some gaps. [22-Aug-24 07:57 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Most of EV1L burned out after their huge Arclight project at the start of the year. xelsored lasted longer than most, but he was basically the last. And supporting dozens of bases out in Arclight mostly by himself. I'm astonished he lasted as long as he did. [22-Aug-24 07:59 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 but yeah, most of his wealth was moved internally within EV1L and other partner corps off of CX, but he was likely one of the wealthiest players in the game. He shared a lot with KAWA and it was... insane. He *easily* had more wealth than our whole corp combined many times over... [22-Aug-24 08:23 PM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/the-wolf-of-wall-street-eat-the-rich-chanting-enjoying-meeting-gif-17464576 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/the-wolf-of-wall-street-eat-the-rich-chanting-enjoying-meeting-gif-17464576 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Q5_jCq1A72uFXfGHKUFhgQ8FWZGw5nXjZZg5OKlGesk/https/media.tenor.com/wz5jukPbt7AAAAAe/the-wolf-of-wall-street-eat-the-rich.png {Reactions} πŸ˜† (2) [22-Aug-24 08:29 PM] jcheung#0000 *forks rise* [22-Aug-24 09:11 PM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/austin-powers-yeah-yeah-baby-alright-great-gif-26979711 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/austin-powers-yeah-yeah-baby-alright-great-gif-26979711 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/C2jRpnaTfohL7oc-O5U_uYv1rbOlK70682eU22goXsE/https/media.tenor.com/2nIE5QDDMkoAAAAe/austin-powers-yeah.png [24-Aug-24 02:10 AM] finestone#0000 @akyantor Could we use Gov funds to upgrade warehouse on WU-070a? Hyalos deserves better πŸ™‚ [24-Aug-24 02:10 AM] akyantor#0000 Yes, I'm going to ship out the stuff in the next day or so. [24-Aug-24 02:10 AM] akyantor#0000 Someone already asked in plantary chat. [24-Aug-24 02:10 AM] finestone#0000 how does one acess planet chat [24-Aug-24 02:11 AM] akyantor#0000 COMG pl-wu-070a [24-Aug-24 02:13 AM] finestone#0000 Ohh nice thanks thats hilarious that someone asked a couple days ago [24-Aug-24 02:13 AM] finestone#0000 Save wavelegnth i guess [24-Aug-24 02:15 AM] akyantor#0000 Yeah, just going to stick the materials on my nexxt supply run / pick up. Will probably be in the next 2 days ro so. {Reactions} πŸ₯³ [24-Aug-24 02:15 AM] akyantor#0000 Will bump it up at to 1k to start [24-Aug-24 05:08 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I've said it in other places and I'll say here again. A certain level of warehouse is understandable. But I saw a gov request 900k for a warehouse upgrade on a planet where that is several months worht of income, and I voted no to reimburse. That isnt a smart financial decision and 4 warehouses is incredibly niche and only serves very few [24-Aug-24 05:09 PM] riseoffilth#0000 It doesnt even affect production or efficiency. Its just min-maxing extra space. [24-Aug-24 05:13 PM] jcheung#0000 From a consumer POV 4 is nice because that's a 2k/2k {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [24-Aug-24 05:14 PM] riseoffilth#0000 (pinned) Antares Planetary Upgrade Fund As a result of a public poll on Phobos, after significant discussions with the MPs, we've decided to open up the excess funds generated each month, about 10mil, to the rest of Antares govs and mps, to support new/small planet growth, as well as planets of vital industry. Specifically around POPI infrastructure and new planet ADM/COGC upgrades. DM me directly your proposal and I will present it to the other MPs for consideration. [24-Aug-24 05:16 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I do not challenge its niche utility. I challenge its return on investment and value to the average member of a planet, and whether it is worth the significant cost from the limited wallet of a planet. {Reactions} πŸ‘ [24-Aug-24 05:23 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Pinned a message. [24-Aug-24 05:38 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Hmmm. Well I can't type out the WAR material costs, per level...(FIO spreadsheet idea -- since Prunplanner doesn't incorporate GOV infrastructure costs?) However I would like to point out, that it depends on the planet, and the particular nature of the cost sinks. An immediate +X WAR upgrade, which wasn't needed, nor is funded for by projected governmental revenues? --- I'd definitely take a hard look at it. It also depends on what's being done at that given planet, or around it. Huge extraction/farming operations? Maybe. Construction? Probably not. [24-Aug-24 05:47 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 And yes, I mean take really hard look at it. What would be the typical base, that would be disposed at such a planet.. Would they be losing much, if any, marginal revenues, should they incorporate STOs into their build? IF not, what should the GOV charge, for long-term use of public warehousing, per week? Is the planet + COGC strategically beneficial to the region? And so on.... [24-Aug-24 06:00 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 But, I have two suggestions..... * 1) Update Archiel's Good Governance Gimmick (I'm just having fun), to include say, POPI upkeep + POPI upgrades + the random PPS (planetary project stuff), so that anyone, anywhere, could do a simple lookup of what liquidity they will be sinking into whatever, not just on a immediate basis, but on a long-term basis. ---- With just the GOV sheet, and looking through everyone else's upkeeps, I'm having a really hard time trying to "guess", if everyone in-game, understands the opportunity-cost realities.... [24-Aug-24 06:11 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 #1's a big ask, I know.... * 2) Aww dang, I might have lost my train of throught.... Ah, I got it... From whatever public surveys I've seen, there's basically a very small, and very vocal, minority, that is voicing their opinion, on a given planetary site. Out of some hundreds of planetary plots anywhere, there's basically 5-15% of people, who actually commit their opinions, to action, be it on GOV, third-party surveys, or in actual voting.... You're just skimming the surface of the actual operational reality of any given planet. If you want to know the actual details, what's the player spread on the planet? Pure COMG-specfic bases? Hybrid bases? Nonchalant whatever tf people want bases? Special interest bases? Decoupled/inactive bases? These details will confer with point #1, on what's actually needed, and it's incredibly hard to get, since people basically don't talk. :/ My opinion, from what I've seen. [24-Aug-24 06:13 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Without the data, you're basically just guessing, and I'd think that playing guessing games with whomever, is not the best idea. [03-Sep-24 05:40 PM] marat_sh#0000 @riseoffilth Hi πŸ‘‹ Sorry for bringing up the warehouse upgrades discussion, but what do you think about getting some funds for upgrading warehouses in ANT space for Resource Extraction COGC planets to lvl 3(1000/1000)? it's not as extreme as lvl 7 (2000/2000). I think it would help everyone getting resources off the planets instead of putting all of the hard work on people who do extraction {Reactions} πŸ‘ [03-Sep-24 05:40 PM] marat_sh#0000 Let me know what you think [03-Sep-24 09:33 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I personally think such things should be funded by the people who are directly to benefit from it, which tend to be the minority. But if you have a specific planet and idea in mind, send it to me and ill present it to the parliament. [03-Sep-24 09:46 PM] marat_sh#0000 I looked deeper into it and it looks like most of them that makes sense already over lvl 3. I forgot to update my message πŸ˜… For future settled planets in faction space could be useful [03-Sep-24 09:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Id be supportive of like, getting access to like 2-3 warehouses, depending on what is the limiting factor, volume or mass, for RES planets [03-Sep-24 09:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 because those are cheaper, and you can set half contracts [03-Sep-24 09:47 PM] riseoffilth#0000 so its just 2 contracts for full up ship sizes [03-Sep-24 09:48 PM] riseoffilth#0000 but to max it out for like 6 warehouses per... i dont think thats a good investment... But I'll bring it to Phobos Parliament either way [03-Sep-24 09:48 PM] riseoffilth#0000 if they support it,it gets funding [03-Sep-24 09:48 PM] marat_sh#0000 after lvl 3 it should be a planet investment but up to lvl 3 it's not that bad [03-Sep-24 09:48 PM] marat_sh#0000 1000/1000 is already 2 starting ships [03-Sep-24 09:49 PM] tanda#0000 On that note, SE-110a and b could really use a bit of an up. They're single warehouse only locations. Makes moving in a hassle, that's for sure [03-Sep-24 10:00 PM] sidepipe#0000 I happen to be an MP on A, so I can talk to Tuffy about that. I’m sure we could get those upgraded [03-Sep-24 10:10 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Happy to pitch an idea to the phobos MPs [04-Sep-24 10:21 AM] archielvahr#0000 What's the cost of level 1-3? Isn't it only a few 100k? [04-Sep-24 10:21 AM] .urpalhal#0000 It’s pretty cheap [04-Sep-24 10:22 AM] archielvahr#0000 I picked up a shipload of argon recently from some random planet, on the way up I upgraded the warehouse just because it made that one contract easier to deal with [04-Sep-24 10:22 AM] archielvahr#0000 And warehouses never go bad [04-Sep-24 10:28 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Mmm, well I get that WARs are a niche thing, but I'd like to point out that POPI/PPS upgrades, are usually a long-term thing, unless you've been situated on a planet, long-term, without any noticeable infrastructure upgrades. [04-Sep-24 10:29 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Or should a given planet be experiencing a significant, short-term player influx, that will be unmet with current infrastructure. [04-Sep-24 10:31 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 WARs are also entirely optional, however there may be a few instances wherein, a given place would really "need" to have WARs, of any kind... [04-Sep-24 10:32 AM] marat_sh#0000 I think POPI on newly settled planets should be on the people who settled there (since it benefits just them) WARs on the other hand help with logistical loads in the faction space [04-Sep-24 10:33 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Of course, people have Archiel's gov sheet, and gov guide. I'd add, if you're dealing with PIOs (you don't really need anything); with SETs, you need SSTs; with TECs, you need INFs; with ENGs, you need PARs. And everything else is just more expensive. [04-Sep-24 10:33 AM] marat_sh#0000 I can argue that newly settled planets should be getting funds on vote bases (see if people are interested in supporting specific planet) [04-Sep-24 10:34 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I usually incorporate x2 STOs, if not three of them, on any given base. [04-Sep-24 10:34 AM] marat_sh#0000 well it's you [04-Sep-24 10:34 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yes, its me. [04-Sep-24 10:34 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Others? Not so much. [04-Sep-24 10:35 AM] marat_sh#0000 but if I need H but I don't want to drop a base so I can buy more then 500/500 H at the time from a planet who has a H base there [04-Sep-24 10:36 AM] marat_sh#0000 STOs are good for people who can make deliveries themselves But not so much for people who want to buy a resource from that planet [04-Sep-24 10:36 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Up to WAR level 12, should be easy enough to fund.... [04-Sep-24 10:37 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 that'll afford 3k t/m3 area. [04-Sep-24 10:37 AM] marat_sh#0000 lvl 3 is already a huge boost [04-Sep-24 10:37 AM] marat_sh#0000 LVL 7 is more on expancive side [04-Sep-24 10:37 AM] marat_sh#0000 and it should be a planet investment at that point [04-Sep-24 10:39 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 It's still not expensive, since you have a SUM[ Constant(Odd_level + Even_level)] material costs.... They start to add up after level 10, but another 2 levels can be justified. However, you'll either want to source some private funds (from those who will be directly benefiting from such additional space), or adjust the rental fees for those warehouses, to fund such expansions, in the long-term (1-2 years)? [04-Sep-24 10:40 AM] marat_sh#0000 Using Phobos funds for funding up to lvl 3 and after that it should be on the planets income [04-Sep-24 10:43 AM] marat_sh#0000 if place has a heavy traffic for argon/limestone/hydrogen and etc. It can be discussed with people of Phobos and voted on per planet [04-Sep-24 10:43 AM] marat_sh#0000 if it's worth investing over lvl 3 [04-Sep-24 10:44 AM] marat_sh#0000 it will also help new players to go for extraction cogcs and not being afraid of 1000/1000+ daily shipping [04-Sep-24 10:45 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 You do understand, that's 3.5 LCB FTLs for that figure, right? [04-Sep-24 10:45 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Just for a single base/extraction point [04-Sep-24 10:45 AM] marat_sh#0000 Yes and people can use LMs to sell on site instead of trying to ship it with starting ships [04-Sep-24 10:46 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yes. [04-Sep-24 10:48 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 It's still a convoluted differential though. You can't demand given standards, yet you can't expect that no one will want upgrades, at least on the individual-operational side of things. I'd always suggest STOs, since well, they cost nothing, aside from potential daily extraction rates, but near-free storage is still near-free. [04-Sep-24 10:49 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 On the STOs costing nothing --- I usually plan my bases with alloted shipping capacities, and spare base area, so for me, they cost nothing to plop down. [04-Sep-24 10:49 AM] jcheung#0000 Too many STOs are pretty expensive opportunity cost wise [04-Sep-24 10:49 AM] jcheung#0000 While too few are logistical headaches [04-Sep-24 10:49 AM] marat_sh#0000 over 2STOs is already overkill [04-Sep-24 10:50 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 There's "ideal" base ratios... [04-Sep-24 10:51 AM] marat_sh#0000 I see what you are saying but I am in perspective of a buyer when I don't have a base there and I can't buy that much from person if warehouse is not sufficiently upgraded {Reactions} πŸ‘ [04-Sep-24 10:51 AM] laaxus#0000 for me, I fit as many building as I can, and then put a STO if possible [04-Sep-24 10:52 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I do farming + fps. Let say on a HYF planet, any one, since you can plop HYFs anywhere. I can drop 20 HYFs, + habs + x3 STOs, with 2 base area left over. [04-Sep-24 10:52 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 If i drop only 1 STO, maybe I can drop another HYF, but now I'm having to maintain excess HAB area, that will always go unused. [04-Sep-24 10:52 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ... yeah I can't even do that. [04-Sep-24 10:53 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 unless I drop another permit (1 permit only, via the example). [04-Sep-24 10:53 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 that's what I do, unless I deem that I need more STO, for whatever reason. [04-Sep-24 10:54 AM] marat_sh#0000 I go for at least 1 STO if my daily shipping is over 250/250 πŸ˜… [04-Sep-24 10:55 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 lv 12 WAR, for a 3k/t shipment weekly.. lv 10 WAR for a 2k/t shipment weekly... You could buy more, and be able to purchase more, however the ratios are limited, and you'll be doing daily micromanagement with them. [04-Sep-24 10:56 AM] marat_sh#0000 I wish WAR and base storage were linked {Reactions} πŸ‘ [04-Sep-24 10:56 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 They could be, if you have a base there. [04-Sep-24 10:57 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 There's a contractual fulfilment preference. Base first, then WAR. [04-Sep-24 10:57 AM] marat_sh#0000 I though I need to open a warehouse tab and manualy transfer items from there to base storage [04-Sep-24 10:58 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'm talking of fulfilment, via contracts. You can fiddle with the stuff after its been delivered, though. [04-Sep-24 10:58 AM] marat_sh#0000 I see [04-Sep-24 10:59 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 On the Starter planets (Deimos, Promitor, Verdant, Katoa?)... All of your basic stuff, SST/INF/PAR/WAR have been fully upgraded to max levels. [04-Sep-24 10:59 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 This is due to the beneficience of players that have long since, left the game. 😦 [04-Sep-24 10:59 AM] marat_sh#0000 https://tenor.com/view/it-deserves-to-be-remembered-lance-geiger-the-history-guy-it-should-be-remembered-we-have-to-remember-it-gif-21864120 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/it-deserves-to-be-remembered-lance-geiger-the-history-guy-it-should-be-remembered-we-have-to-remember-it-gif-21864120 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/W7W-9VXvDgw37GvO3SfIVGsorb9bGY-RrOCFxfAPRgQ/https/media.tenor.com/Wt1RXDvyhP4AAAAe/it-deserves-to-be-remembered-lance-geiger.png [04-Sep-24 11:58 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Etherwind has the biggest POPI levels in Benten from FIOC maxing out almost everything, the others are catching up. Katoa only has lvl 4 INF, lol [04-Sep-24 12:04 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 It does, well that sucks. Maybe they should have kept with a REF COGC some 2+ years ago, and they would have had that stuff maxed out by now. :/ [04-Sep-24 12:30 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 eh, the bonus benefits manufacturing more than refining by a lot, but honestly I'd be ok with the flip... The reason INF is 4 is because it's not even needed right now [10-Sep-24 10:39 AM] razenpok#0000 @archielvahr Hi, fyi Romulan a has currently a SET deficit {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1283089594258296998/image.png?ex=6814e74d&is=681395cd&hm=d035f4976e4ffd9f759c9744034fa41aee4a20b5a5493dc443200d73326580a6& [10-Sep-24 10:40 AM] archielvahr#0000 Thanks for the heads up. Looks like just 6 workers, but I'll give the planet a poke so it doesn't get worse {Reactions} blobthanks (2) [11-Sep-24 07:49 PM] tanda#0000 Experienced governors: We're looking at dropping 3 bases in the near future on YK-266c to work on REA supply. The infrastructure is pretty barebones with only a single unstocked SST. My current plans are to prioritize building both a COGC and an INF on the planet, and stock the SST with DW and OFF. I will need to grow 2k PIO and 1.2k SET. What is the most efficient way to make this happen? [11-Sep-24 11:41 PM] riseoffilth#0000 First off, for 2k pio and 1.2k set, there is absolutely no need to have more than a single input on the SST. you are just throwing away money. Just an SST with OFF is sufficient. But you will want to build a COGC, ADM, and SST. Run and elect yourself in the 3 day election, and then run programs to get the population you need. 2x PIO and then 4-5 SET programs will get you your numbers [11-Sep-24 11:42 PM] riseoffilth#0000 If you would like to petition the wise and magnanimous MPs of Phobos for funding, I can certainly drop such a request in that channel [12-Sep-24 07:00 AM] tanda#0000 I think I would like to petition for funding. the BWS alone is super expensive right now {Reactions} πŸ‘ [12-Sep-24 07:00 AM] tanda#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1283759257120018504/image.png?ex=6814b3f9&is=68136279&hm=b907409dea37eb03c1e5ea69190e01fbce4460acefc1f4b1c8dfc47e67b59173& [12-Sep-24 12:39 PM] archielvahr#0000 I approve of Phobos spending on these ADMs and COGCs! {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [12-Sep-24 05:40 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Can you list the 3 planets you are upgrading, along with their planned respective COGCs? [12-Sep-24 05:43 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Also, an existing planet, KI-840c, is already a strong contender for BRM production, which leads to REA. Why not use that? [12-Sep-24 06:11 PM] getonthetrain#0000 YK-266c provides 2 more BRM per cycle, or is 13% more efficient then KI-840c. As a pure REA base, it would be more profitable. each BRM feeder base - when maxed out - would produce 77 more BRM per day. Over the course of a year, that means 28,105 more BRM from EACH feeder base. Translating that into REA, each base would provide 11,242 more REA each year - or 22,484 total. [12-Sep-24 06:13 PM] getonthetrain#0000 22,484 at 500/u REA is 11,242,000 AIC annual, or nearly 1 million more per month. In addition, it is only 4 shorter jumps to ANT compared to 5 longer jumps to KI-840c. [12-Sep-24 06:58 PM] tanda#0000 The only planet in question for development is YK-266c. My current plan is to run Chemistry COGC. I'm not going to pretend I saw KI-840c, but it is not just poorer in output, it's also situated another jump away from the CX. I also believe we could do with another (yes, another) chem planet near into Antares. [12-Sep-24 06:58 PM] getonthetrain#0000 One further benefit is that YK is closer to all markets, should we need to sell this bountiful production elsewhere. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1283939929407094807/image.png?ex=6814b37d&is=681361fd&hm=37244cbd329b68bff0e7bded59f82097651f2c41633e758ec5c7db86887171e1& [12-Sep-24 09:09 PM] riseoffilth#0000 ah, that makes more sense {Reactions} πŸ’― [12-Sep-24 09:09 PM] riseoffilth#0000 sounds good [13-Sep-24 01:33 AM] exeler#0000 I upgraded the one on B to level 8, will be lvl 9 next time I send a ship that way too. Should be plenty of space for everyone now [14-Sep-24 01:13 PM] tanda#0000 That's great, thanks for doing that. I'm sure I'll need to use that WAR eventually [18-Sep-24 12:50 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'm guessing anyone's that's paying attention to the COMGs.... will have taken notice of this.... [18-Sep-24 12:50 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 lowstrife's Festivities III argument?!? [18-Sep-24 12:50 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Is it worthwhile to consider? Will it save money for the GOVs in the long run, or is it just some ploy? [18-Sep-24 12:51 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 He's literally spamming it all over the verse... Hard to avoid, since he's kinda everywhere. [18-Sep-24 12:53 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Although, the DW/COF/KOM/ALE+ markets will be freaking out in a week or so.... It's not hard to guess the incentive of the rhetoric. [18-Sep-24 01:09 PM] archielvahr#0000 The math is generally sound [18-Sep-24 01:17 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'll tend to agree, without digging into specific, before tomorrow. [18-Sep-24 01:17 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 If the devs ever introduced a weight argument into Festivities... then that would change things. [18-Sep-24 01:55 PM] riseoffilth#0000 The math works, but I generally consider the reliance on programs and the lack of flexibility to do other programs when needed is irresponsible and generally a worse option, even if slightly cheaper for station-keeping pop levels. [18-Sep-24 02:01 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 There's some angle to it... Our boy wouldn't be posting over every COMG that they've a presence on, without it. It's just uncommon sense, to do all that work, when most GOVs/PMs, have already dug into those metric, on face value.... [18-Sep-24 04:43 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 yeah this is the main reason I haven't looked into it much. Like, if I balance my upkeep around needing Fest3 every week, but then there's a base build and I need to run an immigration program... doesn everything just suffer until I've build up that one pop? It feels like you lose a lot of flexibility relying on programs constantly, so the savings would have to be huge [18-Sep-24 06:53 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Yes. The whole downside is it locks you out of the entire "program" ecology. You just dont get to use it without instantly succumbing to low happiness everywhere. [18-Sep-24 06:53 PM] riseoffilth#0000 because it suppresses TRUE happiness [18-Sep-24 06:54 PM] riseoffilth#0000 because FES happiness is an additive on top [18-Sep-24 07:14 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 How long is true happiness averaged over? Could you switch programs and only fill POPI for that week? [18-Sep-24 07:24 PM] tanda#0000 Workforce programs don't have a material component, just a credit cost? [19-Sep-24 08:26 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yep. [20-Sep-24 11:03 PM] tanda#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1286900644392861748/image.png?ex=6814ecdf&is=68139b5f&hm=88f2fc33945753a82fb350a551e1a5484758a94de8e01cf253d9ecb97962ed6d& {Reactions} 😍 [20-Sep-24 11:03 PM] tanda#0000 It is done [20-Sep-24 11:09 PM] getonthetrain#0000 https://tenor.com/view/ribbon-cutting-wcth-ribbon-lucas-elizabeth-wcth-lucas-elizabeth-when-calls-the-heart-lucas-elizabeth-gif-20328239 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/ribbon-cutting-wcth-ribbon-lucas-elizabeth-wcth-lucas-elizabeth-when-calls-the-heart-lucas-elizabeth-gif-20328239 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/WTae-gaLK9ce2LWQ7E9hGRmjPJTtpedOoBcpi3Q-qcw/https/media.tenor.com/57OuSfV-NgQAAAAe/ribbon-cutting-wcth-ribbon.png [21-Sep-24 11:54 PM] jvaler#0000 woah that's a bit close for comfort {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1287275731570655292/image.png?ex=6814f8b2&is=6813a732&hm=8ee6a64edd9d76f555ffc984527abe95a3bc5c82e07c070c10e4a306acc50b87& [21-Sep-24 11:55 PM] jvaler#0000 2000 voting power? so either multi permit-ing or spiteful BMPs lol. i see there was a bit of an argument with them in astraeus chat [22-Sep-24 12:29 AM] jcheung#0000 the fuck [22-Sep-24 12:29 AM] jcheung#0000 fuel refining? [22-Sep-24 12:32 AM] archielvahr#0000 i'm sure he's just making sure people vote and would change it later πŸ˜› [22-Sep-24 12:39 AM] jcheung#0000 i doubt it [22-Sep-24 03:49 PM] riseoffilth#0000 He was rather upset when no one on planet voted for any COGC a couple weeks back [22-Sep-24 03:50 PM] riseoffilth#0000 since then, he has voted against the exising cogc on 2+ total planets for :reasons:, which he hadnt done before [22-Sep-24 03:50 PM] riseoffilth#0000 So I think he is just acting out to try and put egg on people's face for not voting. [22-Sep-24 03:50 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 lol. [22-Sep-24 03:51 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Nothing would be more eggy on face than letting it flip it some entirely idiotic cogc program like fuel refining [22-Sep-24 03:52 PM] riseoffilth#0000 it has strong Mad Men vibes from that one scene [22-Sep-24 03:52 PM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/mad-men-conversing-feel-bad-for-you-i-dont-think-about-you-at-all-gif-11888203 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/mad-men-conversing-feel-bad-for-you-i-dont-think-about-you-at-all-gif-11888203 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/dSyrTWo1_cxTOGjSe_zbBjGG6iSGl17VtLQGsNiQZEE/https/media.tenor.com/o4WTpAglWyoAAAAe/mad-men-conversing.png [22-Sep-24 03:52 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Don Draper being the proper COGC program [24-Sep-24 02:55 AM] laaxus#0000 small question [24-Sep-24 02:56 AM] laaxus#0000 hypothetically, how expensive would it be to grow a new planet from 0 to 1k pioneer [24-Sep-24 02:56 AM] laaxus#0000 and then what would be the cost to maintain that population ? [24-Sep-24 02:59 AM] realharvey#0000 what planet are you looking at? If a planet has not been settled yet, there is usually good reasons for it. [24-Sep-24 03:01 AM] laaxus#0000 something far away [24-Sep-24 03:01 AM] laaxus#0000 https://tenor.com/view/kekw-twitch-twitchtv-twitch-emote-kek-gif-19085736 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/kekw-twitch-twitchtv-twitch-emote-kek-gif-19085736 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/ycvuTkspzcdOCx995vZ8S9nLDjiMs7KmgOwtk54UZqQ/https/media.tenor.com/FpbWqUpKsacAAAAe/kekw-twitch.png [24-Sep-24 03:02 AM] laaxus#0000 I have nothing to do, so I was thinking of what I would like to do once I'd be **RICH** [24-Sep-24 03:03 AM] laaxus#0000 and one of the thing I would like to do is to try to supply cheap input goods to the ANT CX [24-Sep-24 03:04 AM] laaxus#0000 to try to reduce the need for a vertical economy [24-Sep-24 03:04 AM] laaxus#0000 but for some good, it's just better to process it as close to the source as possible [24-Sep-24 03:04 AM] laaxus#0000 for example cuo [24-Sep-24 03:16 AM] laaxus#0000 tho this strategy might change with gateways [24-Sep-24 04:20 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 It will not likely change, for quite some time, after the gateways. :/ [24-Sep-24 09:41 AM] riseoffilth#0000 depends, do you want a COGC and ADM? If so, 2.5mil+. after that, the programs to get 1k pios is like... 15k per program, and you need 2? [24-Sep-24 09:43 AM] laaxus#0000 I see thanks [24-Sep-24 09:47 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Honestly though I doubt you'd need the program, pios fill pretty fast. You could probably get away with just building the CoGC at first and wait for the pop to fill. Especially with BWS prices right now [24-Sep-24 09:48 AM] jvaler#0000 "back in my day..." [24-Sep-24 09:59 AM] riseoffilth#0000 you wanna wait the weeks required for 30% weekly gain off a starting pop of 200? really? [24-Sep-24 09:59 AM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/kaka-gif-8474910153009606870 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/kaka-gif-8474910153009606870 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/2RIX7FRiHBbyZ5aoA4VUyUrwd6AbHLeR0asNUAWOvDk/https/media.tenor.com/dZzt4dV9MNYAAAAe/kaka.png [24-Sep-24 10:04 AM] archielvahr#0000 The programs are super cheap and fast for PIO and SETs. The ADMs are mostly just lfabs, I dunno the CX price but my internal prices come up at 574k for the ADM [24-Sep-24 10:04 AM] archielvahr#0000 And there's other reasons to have an ADM so I guess I just take that as a given [24-Sep-24 11:33 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 πŸ˜† no I definitely think an ADM is the way to go, it's just a long time to break even and most pioneer only bases aren't making insane amounts of cash. Β―\_(ツ)_/Β― idk, still probably worth ADM by a lot, but BWS is high right now so depends on the plans imo [24-Sep-24 02:35 PM] kynadre#0000 what'd be the cost over time for maintaining it, too? [24-Sep-24 02:35 PM] kynadre#0000 the structures related to planet workforce happiness etc. have inputs required over time [24-Sep-24 04:00 PM] jvaler#0000 for 1000 PIO, basically nothing. it might not even need a single SST, but i'm not sure {Reactions} πŸ‘ [24-Sep-24 05:11 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 it wont. I govern Tacotopia and it has 15k Pioneers and I don't have us any upkeep at all, I just fill CoGC {Reactions} 😍 [24-Sep-24 05:12 PM] kynadre#0000 That's awesome, so it's really not that bad to get some pioneer-only extraction planets going once a player's more established, then? [24-Sep-24 05:12 PM] kynadre#0000 or can a player only govern 1 planet? [24-Sep-24 05:13 PM] jvaler#0000 with the recent governance update you can govern as many planets as you like {Reactions} πŸ‘† 😍 [24-Sep-24 05:13 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 there is automatic boost to life support, safety, and maybe health, given for each base on the planet. Just that is enough to sustain a lot of pioneers {Reactions} πŸ‘ [24-Sep-24 05:13 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Yeah I govern 1, MP on 2 and help support like 20. One person in KAWA is on like a dozen planets, lol [24-Sep-24 05:14 PM] kynadre#0000 There's some +happiness act thingy that helps a lot too, right? [24-Sep-24 05:14 PM] kynadre#0000 haha nice [24-Sep-24 05:14 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 lol {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1288262322787188777/image.png?ex=68149b08&is=68134988&hm=ee5a5acb5c4ccb055db852dd4b1a65a6f7fb7b36eae145d1acd49fca2c489324& {Reactions} 😍 [24-Sep-24 05:15 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 yeah there are programs you can run to build pop without filling POPI upkeep. Those are nice for getting the initial populations bult up quickly {Reactions} 😍 [24-Sep-24 07:11 PM] riseoffilth#0000 dont look at my info πŸ˜„ [26-Sep-24 03:13 PM] pxlfox.#0000 @Deimos anything I should know, before I vote. Should I vote in the first place? [26-Sep-24 03:16 PM] jcheung#0000 yes. you should know that that tags people that self identify as having bases on the planet, not the government πŸ˜› [26-Sep-24 03:17 PM] jcheung#0000 generally though, i just vote for @riseoffilth unless they've made it clear they don't want first place [26-Sep-24 03:17 PM] laaxus#0000 Governor is a benevolent rΓ΄le, so you should vote for someone that has enough capital to support it, expΓ©rienced enough to not ruin it, old enough to not quit, and present enough on discord in case of anything happening [26-Sep-24 03:18 PM] laaxus#0000 I just vote riseoffilth or archiel [26-Sep-24 03:22 PM] archielvahr#0000 Do you have any specific questions? [26-Sep-24 03:23 PM] pxlfox.#0000 I didn't really dig into the whole politics side of the game... so not really. I just had the popup and was wondering, if I should be aware of something. [26-Sep-24 03:23 PM] archielvahr#0000 Generally I'd say if things are going well on a planet, keep voting for the current Governor and parliament team [26-Sep-24 03:24 PM] pxlfox.#0000 Like idk "We don't talk about Paris" or "Please don't vote - you're going to destroy out plans"... something like that [26-Sep-24 03:24 PM] realharvey#0000 none of the current government has been controversial so far {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [26-Sep-24 03:31 PM] jcheung#0000 usually it's a safe bet to vote for the previous govt unless you see in planetary chat a big stink being raised [26-Sep-24 03:55 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Nah you should vote for me [26-Sep-24 03:55 PM] laaxus#0000 I would vote for avacyn if I could [26-Sep-24 04:08 PM] kynadre#0000 there's no way to see or know that until you make your base there, right? And can you see the history from before or no? [26-Sep-24 07:28 PM] tanda#0000 you can always check the GOV buffer for a planet [26-Sep-24 07:29 PM] tanda#0000 In this election, Paris_In_Springtime has been the governor of Deimos for a very long time now [26-Sep-24 07:29 PM] tanda#0000 I certainly would like to keep them in GOV {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [26-Sep-24 07:48 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Same. Paris has been a fine gov for Deimos, and the existing parliament team has been supportive. Rotary is not rerunning, so I would suggest voting for Mysterious Walrus as a new candidates who is not among the existing cohort. The lineup should be on Deimos: -Paris -Rise -Capi -Tanda -MysteriousWalrus My suggesting is to vote for any of them that are lowest to bouy them against challenge, while ensuring that Paris has enough votes to comfortably stay on top {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [27-Sep-24 02:35 AM] ravve#0000 I have participated in the latest elections as a candidate looking get more understanding on the government aspect of the game. Votes are welcome, but surely if I dont put more input on forums like this, I wont have big expectations. πŸ™‚ [27-Sep-24 02:59 AM] riseoffilth#0000 voted {Reactions} πŸ‘Œ [24-Oct-24 02:30 PM] kynadre#0000 is there a max of 4 on parliament? [24-Oct-24 02:30 PM] kynadre#0000 I noticed we have 6 ppl running on Deimos [24-Oct-24 03:27 PM] marat_sh#0000 it scales with amount of people on the planet {Reactions} πŸ‘ [24-Oct-24 04:14 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Min: 2 seats.... Max: 5 seats... Gimme y'all data, so I can make a function out of it? (Bases + PM seats). [24-Oct-24 04:17 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Those devs aren't going to help you #reverse-engineer their functions, btw. You'll get a short addendum to Archiel's Gov guide, regarding PM seat allocation functions, if I get data, in #here. πŸ˜› [24-Oct-24 04:34 PM] razenpok#0000 https://prosperousuniverse.com/blog/2024/03/18/term-started-426 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1299123903427248260/image.png?ex=681491ab&is=6813402b&hm=870c6d367655eb121a08d632c13681d32ef93dfb6039578297b1769c6d49fcf9& {Embed} https://prosperousuniverse.com/blog/2024/03/18/term-started-426 Term Started - Development Log #426 | Prosperous Universe Michi is working on the first command of the politics update. https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/J_7oEiiXj5S5pC-lAEflnEjkT-bazorggzkiUpm1znU/https/cdn.prosperousuniverse.com/website/og_image/release_f2p.jpg {Reactions} πŸ‘ [24-Oct-24 04:36 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 ``` A smaller planet will only have a parliament size of one, planets with more than 25 bases will have a parliament of three and for very large planets the parliament will have five members. We deliberately start with small parliament sizes and depending on how well the feature works might increase this in the future.``` [24-Oct-24 04:37 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 The first section doesn't. PM's sizes start at 2... And then grow to 5... [24-Oct-24 04:38 PM] akyantor#0000 The exact formula for bases to seats is here: https://com.prosperousuniverse.com/t/how-governments-will-work-after-the-politics-update/6409 {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [24-Oct-24 04:39 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Ty. [24-Oct-24 04:44 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 **notes in notebook... Akyan + 200k AIC, in like 2 weeks. :3 --- no data, but direct answer? still good credit from me** [24-Oct-24 04:48 PM] akyantor#0000 ? [24-Oct-24 04:52 PM] jvaler#0000 ~~governor doesn't count as a parliament seat, they're considered separate~~ {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1299128456776253440/image.png?ex=681495e8&is=68134468&hm=7170f7a0c9cb58a3f2c18feb4941a00107d149319f1777875edacc39de3da4ef& [24-Oct-24 04:52 PM] jvaler#0000 ~~so it's 1 gov seat 1 parliament seat~~ [24-Oct-24 04:54 PM] razenpok#0000 That's not :true: {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1299128906317697075/image.png?ex=68149653&is=681344d3&hm=d7df8a124a0d5a22b5a3e80051c5e8ad68d6a7dd877fb2c46d4d0e17175b7d28& [24-Oct-24 04:55 PM] jvaler#0000 oh... i guess the devs just misspoke [24-Oct-24 04:55 PM] jvaler#0000 that or that post is before they made changes based on community feedback {Reactions} πŸ‘† [24-Oct-24 04:55 PM] jvaler#0000 idk [24-Oct-24 05:39 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'm asking around, for pertinent data points, regarding GOV stuff... I'll be using that info to make models for the general community in the long term. 200k grant from me if you want it, in 2 weeks? πŸ˜„ [27-Oct-24 11:58 AM] kynadre#0000 Looking at history of Deimos, which is 389(+14) atm, it's been capped at 1 gov + 4 parliament {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1300141670284922952/image.png?ex=6814f9c9&is=6813a849&hm=a98b32c617099538b800877f9d61f9fa81bf20c8a21ca98b4186bb43f75fd106& [27-Oct-24 12:06 PM] marat_sh#0000 yeap... 5 people in the government [27-Oct-24 12:06 PM] marat_sh#0000 if you look closer there is actually only one person in the ANT government πŸ‘€ {Reactions} πŸ‘ [27-Oct-24 12:13 PM] kynadre#0000 so we've got 5 people competing for the last 2 slots :/ I don't know any of them at all tbh, but I know some of them have served before. I don't know the "weight" of their intent or excitement, though {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1300145439286235171/image.png?ex=6814fd4c&is=6813abcc&hm=6322d38987cf1dc9d2862ee0286a5674b657ceda46a32460e2e846e38b836ca7& [27-Oct-24 12:14 PM] kynadre#0000 it's great to give folks a chance to see what it's like, but if someone wins who's "Oh, that sounds kinda interesting" light interest, and someone loses who was really strongly interested, it's a bummer [27-Oct-24 01:48 PM] jvaler#0000 scorpio is reliable, they're the vulcan gov [27-Oct-24 01:48 PM] jvaler#0000 rise apparently has beef with xepiov tho [27-Oct-24 01:48 PM] jvaler#0000 the rest i don't recognize {Reactions} πŸ‘ [27-Oct-24 01:54 PM] tanda#0000 oh crap I forgot to run again {Reactions} pandaOuch [27-Oct-24 01:59 PM] jcheung#0000 https://tenor.com/sFc8LiUcgGk.gif {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/waeltsar1-wael-tsar-wael-zaafouri-cat-tom-gif-15527688355269828850 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/eXw2NB6v91mb7Fb1ao8xNGFod7mLvWyH9k1WfTB7FC4/https/media.tenor.com/131uSjbT4PIAAAAe/waeltsar1-wael-tsar.png [27-Oct-24 02:02 PM] akyantor#0000 Xepiov runs almost everywhere and then does absolutely nothing. I've seen the pattern on more than one planet. I generally vote tactically to try to keep them out if possible {Reactions} πŸ‘ [27-Oct-24 02:44 PM] jvaler#0000 they're pretty harmless to me on SE-648b, they just abstain from any motion [27-Oct-24 02:44 PM] jvaler#0000 but rise has had them block motions on some of his planets {Reactions} πŸ‘ [27-Oct-24 02:46 PM] jvaler#0000 or maybe it was just dragging out the voting time, i don't remember {Reactions} πŸ‘ [27-Oct-24 07:43 PM] kynadre#0000 Good to know! [27-Oct-24 07:43 PM] kynadre#0000 RotaryCyclone appears to only have base on Deimos and has served before [27-Oct-24 07:44 PM] tanda#0000 He's a newer player but decent [27-Oct-24 07:44 PM] tanda#0000 if he's still running he's worth voting for {Reactions} πŸ‘ [27-Oct-24 07:47 PM] zillatron#0000 Sadly, this is my experience on ZV-759g too :/ [27-Oct-24 07:49 PM] kynadre#0000 need sort of a governmental "no-vote" list like the pirate list for that kind of thing hah [28-Oct-24 01:39 AM] ravve#0000 I'm in safe-to-vote list πŸ™‚ {Reactions} πŸ‘† [28-Oct-24 03:55 AM] evov#0000 I've recently taken an interest in planetary governance. Thanks for the awesome write up and google sheet Archiel. Perhaps I'm miss-reading it or just not noticing where it's addressed, but is there any consideration given to the cost of capital? For example - Looking at Safety - It seems clear that building SST's and feeding them with OFF is the most cost effective way of providing Safety. But surely there's a tradeoff at some point between cost of capital vs cost of upkeep? At some point, wouldn't it be better to supply Safety stations with 2 or even 3 of the inputs, rather than building 2 or 3 times the number of safety stations to provide the same amount of Safety? [28-Oct-24 06:15 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 For sure, I think most govs tend to think longer term though and try to set up planets to be efficient without as much consideration for how long it takes to pay off those upgrade investments. For a lot of govs it's also a matter of what materials are accessible, not just what's cheapest. That said, wouldn't be too hard to add upgrade costs to the sheet and see that info visualized somewhere. {Reactions} πŸ‘ [28-Oct-24 06:37 AM] evov#0000 As I set up my own sheets for governance, I think I'll include a cost of capital - something similar to the current rates people give loans out for ( maybe 0.3% per Day ) - and try to include that somehow when working out what the best methods of need fulfilment are. Not sure how I'll do it yet, but, wanted to check to see it wasn't already done / allowed for elsewhere first. [28-Oct-24 11:08 AM] kynadre#0000 So, doing the math on the cost per month of the additional consumables, compared to the one-time cost of an upgrade, will likely bear fruit. I may have incorrectly done math looking at the SUN, but it appeared to be much, much cheaper than adding DW. At some point, the population growth of the planet essentially forces you to choose between paying more for more consumables, doing a 1-time upgrade to an existing building, or adding one of the next tier up of quality of the same building type + its consumables {Reactions} πŸ‘ [28-Oct-24 11:08 AM] kynadre#0000 lots of fun math, I'm sure, for the brave pioneers who did it first! [28-Oct-24 11:09 AM] kynadre#0000 the important note for SUN calculations is that it is consumed once every 10 days, not every 3 [28-Oct-24 11:09 AM] kynadre#0000 I speak from analysis from the outside, not from experience, bear in mind! [28-Oct-24 11:10 AM] kynadre#0000 There's also the fiddly note that a high number of low population bases naturally boosts security up due to base #, whereas a few bases with high population require more security [28-Oct-24 11:49 AM] archielvahr#0000 Having up front capital costs would be great. I think mostly the capital costs get ignored because planets last forever, and the POPI buildings never degrade. But on the other hand, the ACA has cheap supply but is a very expensive building, and people generally ignore that building. I like it cause it uses DW [28-Oct-24 11:57 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'd like to think that people tend to nit-pick certain PPU evaluations, when dealing with POPI upkeep, if not other things... But cost-effectiveness results from your income, or what you get from taxes, to purchase/reimburse mats on the CX, or furnish whatever you make --- **to support what you need**. Most of that is usually GOV discretion. (IF I'm making thousands of TUBs per day, cost effectively, and they don't really sell on the CX, due to price margins... I'm going to drop some TUB on my planets, if they need it, as compared to other options, no? - example). The money circulates around people, so it's not really an issue IMO, unlike APEX contributions. [29-Oct-24 12:00 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 But CptColeslaw and Kynadre are on point. There's other maths stuff that you can look into via https://pct.fnar.net . But most higher pop worlds don't have the luxury of picking and choosing, since they've got PIO/SET populations which eat up most of the upkeep, and if they choose to build up TEC/ENG/SCI populations, that's just another concern. {Embed} https://pct.fnar.net/ PrUn Community Derived Information PrUn Community Derived Mechanics Welcome to the PrUn Community Derived Mechanics wiki. This wiki, while appearing similar to the handbook, is not associated with Simulogics and is purely a community maintained wiki. All content here is maintained by a group of players that create tools and research the game in PrUn Community Tools Discord. If yo... [29-Oct-24 01:17 AM] evov#0000 The way I look at things... is that capital has value. If a planet has 1mil in funds... I could spend it on adding another level to the building and keep using the cheapest input. OR, I could loan it out (or otherwise use it productively) to generate $... at 0.3% per day - that's 3000 per day. I very very strongly suspect that there would be a point where the value of the capital far exceeds the price difference between the cheapest and the 2nd cheapest fulfilment option. I think the same is broadly true for building the "large" version or the "mixed" versions of the pop upkeep buildings. Initially they don't make a lot of sense, but as those 20% cost increase per level starts to build up, I think some of those large/mixed options start to look more appealing by comparison. (For context, I've recently founded 5 planets with support up to engineers.. maybe some sci later, and have rough plans for another 4 or 5 to come. So the Governing side of the game is something I haven't spent any time looking at until now, but I intend to go pretty deep into the weeds and figure it out) [29-Oct-24 01:43 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 There are such points... But it's a "needs" based thing... "Omg... GOV, why are our POPR metrics dropping too low? This is unacceptable!" (what you will likely hear in your planet COMGs, given + 2 weeks after current metrics drop below upkeep rates, evidenced in Archi's Gov sheet). And basically no one will tell you what they're doing/wanting-to-do on your planet(s). :/ [29-Oct-24 01:52 AM] evov#0000 My planets are intended to be invite only. So... yes, people do tell me what they're planning to do before they put a base down. As a result, I can sometimes que up the Immigration program they need before they get there. {Reactions} πŸ‘ [31-Oct-24 02:29 AM] riseoffilth#0000 I just don’t trust someone who doesn’t communicate and has shown gross incompetence in the few planets he’s gotten onto {Reactions} πŸ‘ [18-Nov-24 07:14 PM] evov#0000 Wondering if anyone has much experience doing partial fulfilment on lower pop planets? With low pop planets, I find the fulfilment produced far exceeds the needs required in a lot of cases. [18-Nov-24 07:19 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 I partially filled POPI sometimes when new bases were built on my smaller planets. I'd use WH to fill 1 week of materials instead of the full month [18-Nov-24 07:25 PM] evov#0000 That'll still use the full week of consumables and produce the full amount of needs though right? [18-Nov-24 07:28 PM] evov#0000 Example - Build an SST, feed it with all the OFF it can handle = 833.3 Safety Fulfilment produced. What if I don't need 833.3 Safety, I only need... 100 Safety? I would think... doing something like this would produce half the amount of safety / use half the amount of resources. With the obvious downside of increased micromanagement. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1308242411427860552/image.png?ex=6814c870&is=681376f0&hm=74d94752815de85b213de85575818921a76797b895cfffdec7349a542875112b& [18-Nov-24 07:56 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 as far as I know that's how it works. I've not experimented with it though. I mean I've tried it, I just didn't really collect enough data to confirm it [18-Nov-24 07:57 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 that's more effort that I cared to put in when I make so much OFF πŸ˜… [18-Nov-24 07:58 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 but for more expensive stuff I've always been curious. Like when Katoa was so big that it needed all 3 mats in SST, I think I could have partially filled SUN every week instead of completely filling it. Population dropped before I had a chance to experiment though [18-Nov-24 08:02 PM] evov#0000 Yea, I think it's only really an issue for smaller planets. But, as a guide using "partial" fulfilment on some of these places I started takes the weekly input bill from 60k down to 8k. Extra work, and if it was just MY money probably wouldn't care. But when the goal of these planets are to be self sufficient, AND generate enough extra tax revenue to help pay for gateways... it's more important to look for the best solution and be a better steward of Gov funds. [18-Nov-24 08:04 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 fair, good point [18-Nov-24 08:05 PM] evov#0000 I just haven't seen anyone talk about partial fulfilments or tools that cover their use etc. So I assume they work the way I think they do, but..... will have to wait and see. [18-Nov-24 08:18 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 keep me updates, I'm super curious [18-Nov-24 08:18 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 isn't CraftsmanThirteen doing some POPI experiments? are those relevant? [18-Nov-24 08:19 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 https://discord.com/channels/667551433503014924/829735127373447239/1300051072424874045 [18-Nov-24 08:29 PM] evov#0000 They could be. I think the issue is that the pop input cycles are every (in this case) 3 days. But the pop report is every 7 days. So I'm guessing things can get messy pretty quickly. [19-Nov-24 05:08 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 The harmonics do get messy. I've looked into this on the side. Haven't tried it out due to micromanagement concerns. But CptColeslaw's "compartment" contribution tip basically solves the concerns that I had from a user standpoint. So from your example, a continuous SST | OFF gets you 833 + 1/3 Safety per week. Just cut up the period contribution by a ratio of 1/8, and you'll be getting the ~104.2 safety, on a contribution of ~4 OFF every 3 days, that you need for POPRs. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1308388458980446268/Screenshot_from_2024-10-19_07-33-10.png?ex=6814a7b5&is=68135635&hm=3742383cc9646f066eea276cfdb56aa273415551322e1935e1598256427977b6& [19-Nov-24 05:14 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 You can even use unemployment as a resource. Buffer out POPR surpluses by simply not contributing to POPI infrastructure, but there's issues with that - the same issues when a planetary GOV is trying to increase higher tier happiness metrics via POPI, on a decently settled planet: the lower tiers will eat up any additional Comfort, Culture, and Education bonuses that you put in. You'll get a spreadsheet tool from me on these concerns - I just need to make some time to format it. [19-Nov-24 05:20 AM] evov#0000 I've got my own sheets work out what sort of partial fulfilments I want. Moreso just wanted to see if other people had done this and what their experience was. It "feels" like the sort of thing where I need to manually drip feed the mats in every day or two in order to make it work. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1308391379990483046/image.png?ex=6814aa6d&is=681358ed&hm=49013fe32e0c8d71a6badf0b04df9028a3b4899f4b694efabe6c424314196edf& [19-Nov-24 05:21 AM] evov#0000 The other more public governance tools I've seen usually just have the inputs as a check box... so not really set up to manage partial fulfilments from what I could tell. [19-Nov-24 05:33 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yeah it's not setup for that. It assumes POPI satisfaction levels off whole numbers, with continuous upkeep. I'm pretty sure it's meant to be a mass-release tool, and adding in more niche "methods" can confuse people, who haven't looked into particular POPR/POPI mechanics. Micromanagement as a hidden negative feedback "cost" for people trying to game the system? I've pondered this, however you will probably never get a confirmation from any dev of such intentions. This also runs into ship/base overall #s for players, but that's a convo for some other channel. [21-Nov-24 03:13 AM] evov#0000 Question about Need Fulfillment - Where does the "Life support" need fulfillment come from? I've looked at all the Gov resources I can find and have no idea how to increase it (other than fertile planets always have 100% Life Support). And I feel like life support is potentially a limiting factor here {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1309084233871917067/image.png?ex=68148cb2&is=68133b32&hm=ff3fb1117eeea5a095066649689dfa15775dfb8d962edfeaba25e41c2d279a3a& [21-Nov-24 03:44 AM] tanda#0000 Bases or the fertility of the planet itself [21-Nov-24 03:47 AM] evov#0000 So low number of bases vs high population is the likely cause? ( High unemployment being an example of this ) And there's no real way to boost this need fulfilment other than just... more bases / lower overall pop ? [21-Nov-24 04:02 AM] tanda#0000 I believe so. First time I've seen life support below 100, so you must really be pumping population [21-Nov-24 04:35 AM] evov#0000 Yea, that's the goal. Aiming for population growth and - just starting to open the planets up for more people to join, so want to try minimize the time it takes for new bases to get the pop they need. (which is always a bit of a hurdle on smaller/newer planets) [21-Nov-24 04:36 AM] evov#0000 The planet in question is an electronics planet- So virtually no need for Pioneers. Which I think is a big part of the life support issues. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1309105274124107806/image.png?ex=6814a04b&is=68134ecb&hm=bf34b21b93ba556deca50bf5534ec08a76e2aef554fdd6be523b5b887c76f6bd& [21-Nov-24 05:51 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I'd completely disregard that "Need Fulfilment" section on the POPRs. Each base plot (not permit!) grants 1,000 units of Life Support, for however long that players retains a base there. Most base permutations (of any COGC type) are underwhelming with need requirements, unless you run a rather small building, which you can plop dozens of units on the same base (my bases on Boucher need 990 PIOs... 99% utilisation of Life Support, if the planet were not fertile....; Epicier needs 1100 PIOs... a triple permit on Avalon with FPs and whatnot needs 2600 PIOs). You should not run into any problems with LS, just focus on the fundamentals. [Your current LS requirements on IA-151b is 532/2000?) {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1309124042560634973/Screenshot_from_2024-11-21_05-08-48.png?ex=6814b1c6&is=68136046&hm=e6a3df7d07cccd3705544d101578f5f0f0a8193ec3f9a032eaae6faaf4caec11& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1309124042837594152/Screenshot_from_2024-11-21_05-11-33.png?ex=6814b1c6&is=68136046&hm=72c401a8fac564c9e2db82a1c96c2e8ec185dd2f41ac0e3197b98144716ee04a& [21-Nov-24 06:01 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Yes. I'd disregard it completely.. Because the superior portion of the POPR report was reversed-engineered a long time ago..... And I don't think anyone would care to do the same for the dev-implemented "need fulfilment" section, simply because: 1) we have our own tools to give us better information; 2) we don't know how the dev Need Fulfilment works; and 3) it won't give actionable information. Do note on IA-151b's POPR --> Need fulfilment section on the Culture percentage, then hop over to the POPI | ART corollary... There were no upkeep contributions there, since it was constructed, yet that section shows that those needs are being fulfilled. Unless there's something that I don't know, and can't gleam from the in-game buffers. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1309126623739641866/Screenshot_from_2024-11-21_05-33-12.png?ex=6814b42d&is=681362ad&hm=58521fe4567a7dd9055ac22d57015aa6e802cf0d0281943669a7cd524ea6b4a0& [21-Nov-24 06:11 AM] evov#0000 "Each base plot (not permit!) grants 1,000 units of Life Support," - Thanks. This is new info to me. The planet is 51 days old now. The ART was being supplied, but I've stopped providing upkeep to it for the moment. This won't be reflected until the next pop cycle. Just a symptom of - Build it, stock it, get the ball rolling and THEN figure out the details and build the tools needed to optimize it. [22-Nov-24 06:16 PM] evov#0000 @scintillating_iridescence Do you have a link to where you're getting the info about 1000 life support per base plot? The numbers just don't line up if that's the only factor. To get the level of life support % I'm seeing, it would be more like 225 per base plot. So I'm guessing there's other factors at play. [22-Nov-24 11:06 PM] archielvahr#0000 https://handbook.apex.prosperousuniverse.com/tutorials/legacy-tutorials/planetary-population/index.html {Embed} https://handbook.apex.prosperousuniverse.com/tutorials/legacy-tutorials/planetary-population/index.html 9. Planetary Populations :: Prosperous Universe Handbook Prosperous Universe Wiki [22-Nov-24 11:06 PM] archielvahr#0000 I believe all we know is "On unhabitable planets, it has to be provided by habitation buildings. " [22-Nov-24 11:06 PM] archielvahr#0000 I have considered building extra hab buildings just to try to fix it on certain small planets [22-Nov-24 11:07 PM] archielvahr#0000 I have had life support shortages similar to what you have there. They tend to go away when you get more people. [22-Nov-24 11:08 PM] archielvahr#0000 We know PIOs eat up a ton of life support, so as they leave it'll should hopefully improve. Your unemployment isn't crazy though, so πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ [22-Nov-24 11:09 PM] archielvahr#0000 I do kind of fake it in the governor sheet, which is probably where he got the 1000 number. But I have a note about it πŸ˜† [22-Nov-24 11:09 PM] archielvahr#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1309747592682541107/image.png?ex=6814fc40&is=6813aac0&hm=a7a77085fa102e5a238d586b791511c5b1888720211413f4f8e0806920de03fd& [22-Nov-24 11:35 PM] evov#0000 Ok sweet. So the realistic situation is - no-one really knows where life support comes from (other than fertile planets) - only that it tends to not be an issue over time. Coming from hab buildings makes sense since it's a fairly high rate of unemployment there at the moment I think. {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [22-Nov-24 11:44 PM] archielvahr#0000 If you know the life support number you have, I would be interested in your hab count [22-Nov-24 11:45 PM] archielvahr#0000 I guess there's two people on that planet with 100% and 98% of area used [23-Nov-24 12:20 AM] evov#0000 Total Habs on planet across 2 bases 2x HBC 2x HB2 6x HB3 [23-Nov-24 07:04 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Lolz. My best guess would be that each HBx building, provides a flat life support figure, per building tier. So a HB1 could provide a flat 100 LS (supporting 200 PIOs, or a mix of others). A HB2 could provide a flat 65 LS... (I adjusted against PCT's POPI needs index, and my napkin math gets you to within 3% error of stated figures). I also have no idea what the reporting periods on the POPRs are (concurrent or previous figures --- like the unemployment #s --- they're always stating last week's activity). [23-Nov-24 07:12 AM] evov#0000 I could be wrong, but I believe a lot of the numbers (fulfillment for example) are all numbers at the end of the last report cycle. So probably need to subtract the population "change" listed to get a better idea of what they're looking at. i.e. 235+55 Poi (290) 728 -241 Settlers (487) 1060 -76 Tech ( 984 ) 8 +1 Engineers ( 9 ) With Hab Capacity for - 350 Settlers 750 Tech {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1309869222997786645/image.png?ex=6814c4c6&is=68137346&hm=11bcf258448c1d329d2c9f1d7c2580de576e2bda435f32ce8d4d89da24dde659& [30-Nov-24 03:40 AM] finestone#0000 @akyantor how much to sponsor warehouse upgrade to level 7 on Hyalos? Can Hyalos afford to split the cost? or we could ask for multiple donations. Thanks [30-Nov-24 06:22 AM] evov#0000 I recently pushed 7 planets up to having 2k/2k warehouses. Cost me about 10mil for all of them. {Reactions} πŸ‘€ [30-Nov-24 06:23 AM] evov#0000 A few of them already had some warehouse space before doing that. So... ./shrug. 1.5-2mil? [30-Nov-24 06:24 AM] finestone#0000 @riseoffilth @archielvahr @scorpy6225 @rogue48. Hello fellow Phobos governement as a newer player i was just wondering if 24k reimbursement motions for COGC upkeep (Myself, Coolair) would be too annoying to make? (just for practice as well) Also posted a local message for COGC votes as lambcorp put 1816 influence into metallurgy? Thanks [30-Nov-24 06:25 AM] finestone#0000 Thanks its already level 3 πŸ™‚ I could probably do a Mil [30-Nov-24 06:26 AM] evov#0000 0 -> lvl 7 (2k/2k space) is 2mil 3 -> 7 would be . . . 1.5mil [30-Nov-24 06:26 AM] evov#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1312394298184040468/image.png?ex=6814b9ef&is=6813686f&hm=cc0ebb4a767237748f48d5bcccc81843e6e40c17790997585ea0021b4a8a9384& [30-Nov-24 06:27 AM] evov#0000 lvl 3 = 3 cumulative cost. lvl 7 = 13 ... so... 10x the base cost is what it'll be. [30-Nov-24 06:27 AM] evov#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1312394512898719805/image.png?ex=6814ba22&is=681368a2&hm=71087cb60967d52ee1359c0d92136675200d69ab5081ab06b698101199943793& [30-Nov-24 06:27 AM] finestone#0000 Perfect Thanks for the info hopefully hyalos has some funds too! [30-Nov-24 07:14 AM] akyantor#0000 I'd do it at mostly my #internal-offers prices for bfabs, so around 1.1m. I'm subsidising a bit a bit there compared to market, but don't mind. If you are willing to do 1m, then I'll cover any overage. *There's not really any buffer in the planetary funds, as I run the taxes relatively lean, so would contribute my bit personally.* [30-Nov-24 09:51 AM] archielvahr#0000 Sounds good to me, I wasn't watching the last COGC contributions, so feel free to submit for whoever filled it out. Remember you can batch multiple payouts into a motion {Reactions} πŸ‘ [30-Nov-24 09:51 AM] archielvahr#0000 and nice job watching the COGC heh [30-Nov-24 11:00 AM] finestone#0000 Understood I will get back to you when i have the capitol and see if others are interested. Thanks [30-Nov-24 11:04 AM] akyantor#0000 np [01-Dec-24 12:34 PM] riseoffilth#0000 @finestone did it go awol? I coulda swore I checked every COGC before I left for holiday on Wednesday. [04-Dec-24 03:42 AM] evov#0000 Small update on the fractional fulfilment trial I've been running on the planets I govern - I'm going to call it a success at this stage. One big downside - Large increase in micromanagement. I kinda need to check every day ( or at least once every 3 days ) in order to partially re-fill each building, each upkeep cycle. Upside - For newish low pop planets, I've cut the upkeep cost down to 20-30% of what it previously was. Which in most cases, can turn the balance sheet from net negative to net positive. My goal ( at this stage) was to try to maintain about 70% need fulfilment across the relevant segments I was interested in. Ideally aiming for about 80-90% raw happiness on each worker tier and let the unemployment/open jobs number auto-regulate immigration. Example - Fractional fulfilment - and the results after a couple of weeks. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1313802575879081995/image.png?ex=6814937f&is=681341ff&hm=fb2395cc9b30bfcd8105adaa8e0c4589340903e78c4d84fd4fdeed55141415c3& [04-Dec-24 11:20 AM] archielvahr#0000 Not bad [04-Dec-24 11:22 AM] archielvahr#0000 Malahat has a resource that I try to fill for one or two of the 3d cycles per week [04-Dec-24 11:23 AM] archielvahr#0000 because I want 100% DW and 50% OFF [04-Dec-24 11:23 AM] archielvahr#0000 But I usually don't have the patience to do it consistently 😬 [04-Dec-24 11:50 AM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Well all govs now have at least 1 deputy PM slot. You can always try to delegate some petty, and routine tasks, if they'd like to get a little bit more hands on. It'll also open room up for discussions once the numbers and formulae start to float around their brains. [04-Dec-24 01:03 PM] riseoffilth#0000 On larger planets, i tend to rebalance the POPI levels and put in a 2nd or 3rd input, if the prices are similar, to get what I need as a final fulfillment, rather than commit more effort. I can’t imagine enjoying or finding enough value in savings that overrides my evaluation of my time and attention. [04-Dec-24 01:04 PM] riseoffilth#0000 For level 1 stuff…. There definitely isn’t enough value to make micromanagement worth while to me [04-Dec-24 02:03 PM] evov#0000 Yea, for me the value gained isn't worth the extra effort (maybe 20-50k per planet per week in savings ). But.... it's not MY money, it's the taxes of the members, and not being wasteful with it feels important. [04-Dec-24 02:13 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Mmm. It's a case-by-case thing, in my book. Some GOV/PMs in control of #special-projects might find partial upkeep useful, with their own willingness to implement them. Others will conform to a continuous upkeep model, with such consequences as required by POPR demands. I'm taking a neutral stance. Hopefully my independent #sheet tools-will confer enough adequate, and actionable information, so that it'll be used side-by-side with Archiel's GOV sheet, in a split-pane, to cut down on micromanagement, and weekly/monthly user tasks. [04-Dec-24 02:14 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Maybe the utility will garner more interest in GOV, so that reliable people can be taught the ways of empire, in full detail, so there will be less work for everyone on average... Maybe the utility will garner more interest in actually producing some more niche upkeep items, at scale, pushing bids down to affordable costs... Who knows? I've just got limited time with it all, since I've got my fingers dipped in pretty much everything imaginable. [04-Dec-24 02:32 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 Mo' engagement. Mo' interest. Mo' community. A better Prun in 1-2 years? I hope. I'll run my calculations, independent of Evov's examples. When it's all done, maybe we can share some notes. Else I'll keep it on a competitive model, not out of personal interest, but for creative possibility. As an example... ~2.3 mil NCC monthly operational costs for COGC/POPI upkeep on Verdant, were entirely reduced to like ~ 850k NCC monthly costs, with subsequent tax reductions, on a public model, with TEC guarantees. :/ [09-Dec-24 08:46 PM] finestone#0000 @akyantor I have the money and would like to sponsor the warehouse Upgrade on Hyalos for 1m shall i send you a con? Thanks! [10-Dec-24 01:50 PM] akyantor#0000 Ok, I'll send a contract from the gov to take the contribution. I can ship the materials in the next day or so {Reactions} πŸ‘ [12-Dec-24 01:55 AM] akyantor#0000 Materials shipped. πŸš› [12-Dec-24 05:26 AM] finestone#0000 Paid! [12-Dec-24 08:55 PM] riseoffilth#0000 friendly reminder, Phobos gov has lots of money and happy to throw that money around [12-Dec-24 08:55 PM] riseoffilth#0000 to upgrade antares planets [13-Dec-24 12:33 AM] evov#0000 Does Phobo's gov want to buy a gateway when they come in? I'm about half way done on building up the available parts solo. [13-Dec-24 01:33 PM] riseoffilth#0000 I’m sure we will get around to it [15-Dec-24 05:13 PM] razenpok#0000 Random gov question: this button yay/nay? {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1317993038768898108/image.png?ex=6814a8eb&is=6813576b&hm=65dce4c7f84d498d98f3f4988ad94712c8d686420e5a7b8742510bc525b52107& {Reactions} πŸ’― [15-Dec-24 05:17 PM] tanda#0000 please [15-Dec-24 05:17 PM] tanda#0000 I need that [15-Dec-24 07:10 PM] jvaler#0000 if it's easy to implement that'd be great isn't all too important, but will reduce the number of accidents that happen from misclicks lol {Reactions} πŸ’― (3) πŸ‘ (3) [06-Jan-25 01:28 PM] kynadre#0000 @archielvahr your Governer Helper sheet doesn't appear to have a warehouse upgrade cost calculator? [06-Jan-25 01:33 PM] archielvahr#0000 Nope [06-Jan-25 01:34 PM] archielvahr#0000 I've heard rumors there's a random sheet floating aroudn somewhere, but I am not sure where [06-Jan-25 01:34 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I saw one [06-Jan-25 01:34 PM] .urpalhal#0000 But idk where it is either [06-Jan-25 09:14 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 You mean this one? (It's floating around in here somewhere too). It's still in alpha, but it 100% works. Right now, you just plugin whatever POPI/PPS upgrades you want, and it prints out all the material #s that you need, along with their manual/FIO cost estimates. It also computes in batch, so there's no need to calculate each level upgrade individually. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1326026083874639972/POPI-Planner-by-Roh_3.xlsx?ex=6814e146&is=68138fc6&hm=253bc48bada86c58582ad1c47462c7e0b7ff4714ecdcb9e8b2a90552fc86058d& [06-Jan-25 09:15 PM] scintillating_iridescence#0000 I think it works in Excel.... But it was meant to be plugged into a g-sheet, which is how it was built + exported into a neat file format. [07-Jan-25 12:40 AM] evov#0000 r.e. Warehouse costs - I've boosted 9 planets up to a 2k2k warehouse. ( Warehouse level 7 ) - costs about 2mil for that. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1326077933688979456/image.png?ex=68151190&is=6813c010&hm=392f66f6592cd4a650f698f2d6bb1a9160463014fefec6efb06047ee6c3483f6& {Reactions} ❀️ (3) [18-Jan-25 10:04 AM] finestone#0000 ~~@riseoffilth @parisinspringtime do yall have any MCG/PE for Elon COGC~~ looks like ARch grabbed it nevermind {Reactions} ✌️ [18-Jan-25 04:59 PM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/krieger-damnyoualltohell-archer-kieger-upset-gif-5919349 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/krieger-damnyoualltohell-archer-kieger-upset-gif-5919349 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/c3k1c3bj4AlhelZo25AvrH4hIKnpetNTaVttth3L0eo/https/media.tenor.com/xZuwyi4qNi4AAAAe/krieger-damnyoualltohell.png [18-Jan-25 05:00 PM] riseoffilth#0000 cant a guy do some exams and then drink for 48 hours without things going offline?! I literally checked everything on monday/Tuesday and it all looked fine... [18-Jan-25 05:00 PM] riseoffilth#0000 https://tenor.com/view/its-so-frustrating-jack-donaghy-30rock-frustrating-frustrated-gif-19745171 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/its-so-frustrating-jack-donaghy-30rock-frustrating-frustrated-gif-19745171 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Z1QY6E_P-qYm5D-CE2brpDLGoYBfOQsXfuI9HjdqpM4/https/media.tenor.com/8Utcwx5MfyoAAAAe/its-so-frustrating-jack-donaghy.png [18-Jan-25 05:04 PM] riseoffilth#0000 Oh, on another note. For anyone interested, I'm not running for a seat on any planets that I do not actively manage the COGC for(for the mostpart). Just looking to reduce my footprint in the immediate, while in the long term, next few months, I'm probably significantly reducing my footprint in prun. I'll be around and doing plenty of stuff still, just trimming down on the excess and time consuming. Not sure exactly how that will play out. But if anyone is looking to getting into goving, there should be an wide spread of places that could use some folks helping keeping an eye on things. {Reactions} πŸ‘€ πŸ‘ [18-Jan-25 05:25 PM] jvaler#0000 kinda necessary for long-term enjoyment of the game. surprised you've managed to keep up this much for so long [18-Jan-25 05:26 PM] riseoffilth#0000 its cause im good at optimizing and streamlining tasking [18-Jan-25 07:39 PM] archielvahr#0000 I am interested in taking a MP seat on Heph for the purposes of the gateway [18-Jan-25 07:39 PM] archielvahr#0000 There's no real rush on that though, I think we have a while before the gateway release [18-Jan-25 07:39 PM] tanda#0000 you can have mine, lol {Reactions} πŸ˜† [18-Jan-25 07:40 PM] archielvahr#0000 That was a very quick offer, haha [18-Jan-25 07:40 PM] tanda#0000 I'm just trying to block xepiov where I can [18-Jan-25 07:40 PM] archielvahr#0000 Yeah, a lot of coordination goes into that over here also πŸ˜† [18-Jan-25 07:41 PM] archielvahr#0000 I'll run next term since the election is in progress already [18-Jan-25 07:50 PM] jvaler#0000 only reason i'm on nascent & SE-648c lmao [18-Jan-25 08:22 PM] jcheung#0000 just let me know where to vote for who [09-Feb-25 02:59 PM] tanda#0000 ofc EvoV has a spreadsheet just casually posted in here that I need {Reactions} givelove fishahhh partyhehe DancieBoi dancyboi [10-Feb-25 12:28 AM] evov#0000 Those prices were valid at the time of making the sheet. Might be different now if there's change in cost of the mats required though. [10-Feb-25 12:35 AM] tanda#0000 Your cost factor was the info I needed [13-Feb-25 12:55 PM] random_di5cord_user#0000 Anything that should influence my choice in the Heph election? None of the incumbents are even running currently. [13-Feb-25 01:21 PM] .shiva.#0000 xepiov is the one who just kinda trolls elections and doesn't actually do anything if elected right? {Reactions} RSZeroShrugIDK πŸ‘† [13-Feb-25 01:25 PM] random_di5cord_user#0000 well I don't think I was voting for them to begin with since I saw them voting against operational motions on harmonia [13-Feb-25 01:32 PM] .shiva.#0000 I was more asking since they were briefly towards the lead in the deimos election, but looks like votes shuffled around [13-Feb-25 02:16 PM] sidepipe#0000 I know Archiel just wants an MP spot to take care of stuff for the gateway project. For what it’s worth, Lili is going for gov and has the full support of OOG πŸ™‚ {Reactions} πŸ‘ (2) [13-Feb-25 02:17 PM] sidepipe#0000 I’d be happy about anyone except for xepiov, personally [13-Feb-25 02:17 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I’ve only ever seen one message from xepiov ever [13-Feb-25 02:17 PM] sidepipe#0000 I can’t understand how someone can be so dedicated for running for MP just to never vote on a motion {Reactions} πŸ’― (2) [13-Feb-25 02:18 PM] random_di5cord_user#0000 well, xepiov actually voted no, not just abstained [13-Feb-25 02:19 PM] .urpalhal#0000 He never votes on anything at halcyon [13-Feb-25 02:19 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Woah he did? [13-Feb-25 02:19 PM] sidepipe#0000 Wild. I’ve never seen them vote on anything {Reactions} πŸ‘† [13-Feb-25 02:19 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Where was this? Imma go look [13-Feb-25 02:20 PM] random_di5cord_user#0000 Harmonia {Reactions} fishahhh [13-Feb-25 02:20 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Thanks imma go look [13-Feb-25 02:20 PM] random_di5cord_user#0000 `MOT l-ZV-896b m-MOT-42-34673` {Reactions} fishahhh [13-Feb-25 02:21 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Thanks for making my search easier lol [13-Feb-25 02:21 PM] random_di5cord_user#0000 there's 2 others they abstained on, so... [13-Feb-25 02:22 PM] sidepipe#0000 They voted TWICE? [13-Feb-25 02:22 PM] sidepipe#0000 We really do live in interesting times πŸ˜… [13-Feb-25 02:23 PM] sidepipe#0000 Oh, that’s just one motion. Still - interesting times [13-Feb-25 02:24 PM] .urpalhal#0000 lol why no to a payout [13-Feb-25 02:25 PM] sidepipe#0000 I’ve always wanted to try and do a payout to them just to see if they accept πŸ˜„ [13-Feb-25 02:26 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Oh lol should I try it [13-Feb-25 02:28 PM] sidepipe#0000 I’ll vote for it 😁 [13-Feb-25 02:29 PM] .urpalhal#0000 On halcyon? [13-Feb-25 02:29 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Or should I do it for iy-816d [13-Feb-25 02:33 PM] sidepipe#0000 I think either would work - I don’t think there’s many people who’d get upset if we toss xepiov 10k AIC or something as a test. I can reimburse the government if you do it on Halcyon [13-Feb-25 02:34 PM] .urpalhal#0000 lol πŸ˜‚ I’ll do both? [13-Feb-25 02:35 PM] sidepipe#0000 Sure, we’ll see if he pays attention or not πŸ˜„ [13-Feb-25 02:36 PM] sidepipe#0000 I’ll vote on halcyon when I’m back at my PC [13-Feb-25 02:36 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Ok [13-Feb-25 02:37 PM] pxlfox.#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1339696856485200053/IMG_9637.png?ex=6814842c&is=681332ac&hm=a0b05616da375a3ac5bb0734a73825110e7d1499accc5ca6b4329f558c14d039& [13-Feb-25 02:37 PM] pxlfox.#0000 There was that https://discord.com/channels/855488309802172469/855489711635431475/1339292768219959452 [14-Feb-25 12:31 AM] evov#0000 My view is that Gov's should pay for whatever immigration programs are needed. Taxes are collected for a reason. [14-Feb-25 03:37 AM] random_di5cord_user#0000 If someone wants scientists that no one else needs though, I guess you could consider them paying for it as a special tax assessment. [14-Feb-25 03:39 AM] flor2081#0000 true but usually taxes don't cover more than the population upkeep, like if you need to build another university or something, taxes aren't enough [14-Feb-25 03:41 AM] flor2081#0000 I think that's the case anyways, not too sure πŸ˜„ [14-Feb-25 03:41 AM] evov#0000 If the tax rate is increased... it becomes enough I'd imagine. [14-Feb-25 03:41 AM] flor2081#0000 but they're huge upfront costs [14-Feb-25 03:42 AM] flor2081#0000 so you either need to raise taxes from the beginning, collecting way too much money just in case you ever need to upgrade [14-Feb-25 03:42 AM] flor2081#0000 or the gov has to pay upfront from his own money and hope it'll be paid back some day [14-Feb-25 03:47 AM] evov#0000 I do think that the prevailing view/culture on governance is that Gov's are somewhat expected to donate their time as well as capital. I don't agree with that. I think that planets should be self sufficient.... taxing enough to pay for upkeep + programs + pay back loans if needed for upgrades. I think the prevailing culture around governance largely ignores the value of capital, and as a result fails to deploy it efficiently. [14-Feb-25 04:26 AM] pxlfox.#0000 Does a planet has an own bank account? [14-Feb-25 04:26 AM] pxlfox.#0000 Like government funds, where the production fees are collected? [14-Feb-25 04:28 AM] realharvey#0000 yes this is the case [14-Feb-25 04:33 AM] pxlfox.#0000 So, it’s basically two sides of the same coin - either you set the taxes low, cover only your expenses, and let people, who have special requirements, pay themself for that, or set the taxes higher, build up some cash reserves to fund programs, if needed. I feel there isn’t a β€œright” way to do it, just two approaches with their own benefits and disadvantages - and something people can campaign and vote for {Reactions} πŸ‘† [14-Feb-25 04:35 AM] pxlfox.#0000 I would like a MP role somewhere to educate myself on how the gov system works. Is there any planets/seats available or welcome? [14-Feb-25 05:00 AM] evov#0000 Honestly, how many people do you think check the tax rates of a planet before they build on it? [14-Feb-25 05:10 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 This is how basically all of Benten (where SilentReaper operates) is governed and I think the reason he got kinda salty with Paris. Antares has mostly run with a "pay programs yourself" mindset because of Rise and some OOG govs [14-Feb-25 05:11 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 I think it depends on planet size though. Some small planets literally can't pull enough taxes for programs [14-Feb-25 05:12 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 KAWA governs a lot of planets and often use large planet income to pay for small planet upgrades/ programs [14-Feb-25 05:13 AM] evov#0000 On the 9 planets I govern - Gov pays for everything. I fronted the cash to start the planets and started each of them with 1mil in the gov's bank. I pre-set the tax rates the same on all the planets, and the planets pay for all the things themselves. Then once a week I publish an overview of - upkeep costs / tax revenue / cash on hand for all of them. Most of these planets have only myself on them, so I think they definitely qualify as "small" [14-Feb-25 05:13 AM] pxlfox.#0000 I don’t. And as long as they aren’t ridiculous, I often don’t even include them in my calculations. πŸ˜… [14-Feb-25 05:15 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Oh I personally fully agree with your philosophy in this debate, it's how KAWA is set up to govern, though our reporting is inconsistent after a lot of player turnover [14-Feb-25 05:18 AM] evov#0000 I think the only thing that's hard to really... capture... is a good way to pay back the foundation cost of a planet. But the ongoing running costs - to me is a very clearly solved problem - start with a small cash buffer ( 1mil is plenty ) - use taxes to cover all costs. [14-Feb-25 05:26 AM] realharvey#0000 there are also some corgis on your planets recently :D [14-Feb-25 05:29 AM] evov#0000 I just want to put some of the costs into perspective - I have a base on IA-158e - Built to make WAI. Roughly, if PrunPlanner is to be believed, makes 210k profit per day. 1.47mil per week. Running cost for that planet / gov is about 20k per week. This covers upkeep for the CoGC and all 5 population tiers. And things tend to get more cost efficient with more people / higher pops. [14-Feb-25 06:01 AM] random_di5cord_user#0000 > or the gov[ernor] has to pay upfront from his own money and hope it'll be paid back some day So, in the real world, governments pay for large up front costs with... bonds (which are then paid off by taxes) But, unless I'm missing something, governments in prun can't take loans. (At least not ones that would be attributed to the government, rather than the governor) [14-Feb-25 06:43 AM] tanda#0000 I govern several planets with no MPs. If you're just wanting to take a look at the system, run for MP on one of them {Reactions} πŸ‘ [14-Feb-25 07:59 AM] sidepipe#0000 I tend to agree that taxes should cover everything including programs - at least, that’s how I run my planets. But on a lot of these larger planets, there’s tons of pressure to keep taxes low, and tax hikes can be a non-starter politically. I’ve already seen plenty of tax arguments for pretty inconsequential hikes [14-Feb-25 08:00 AM] sidepipe#0000 Especially because people will pull out comparisons to other planets with lower taxes (where they would have to fund their own programs etc) [14-Feb-25 08:01 AM] sidepipe#0000 It’s amazing what a stink some people will raise over losing fractions of a percent of profit from their base [14-Feb-25 08:07 AM] razenpok#0000 https://tenor.com/view/luna-terra-ust-message-money-gif-23530621 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/luna-terra-ust-message-money-gif-23530621 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/N3tcsWTVnd7tyOlFvZXiQdP3H_F49d1YAu19dUWwKgM/https/media.tenor.com/sWVkYLPD7LkAAAAe/luna-terra.png [14-Feb-25 08:08 AM] jcheung#0000 It's dumb because current taxes are a rounding error [14-Feb-25 08:10 AM] sidepipe#0000 Anyway, that’s why I stick to smaller planets - you get less of the, uh, value-obsessed customers πŸ˜„ [14-Feb-25 08:18 AM] tanda#0000 I always saw larger planets as a mostly solved problem. And I'm not really looking to play politics,lol [14-Feb-25 09:27 AM] jcheung#0000 the value obsessed customers can go find thier own planet then [14-Feb-25 09:28 AM] jcheung#0000 like seriously, 5 AIC for a run of AL, that's 1.7 credits per unit of AL. could double it and i wouldn't even notice. [14-Feb-25 09:29 AM] jcheung#0000 *oh no, my base will take a quarter of a second longer per day to have a ROI* [14-Feb-25 09:38 AM] sidepipe#0000 In theory yes, but in practice they can make _you_ go find your own planet sometimes πŸ˜„ [14-Feb-25 09:39 AM] sidepipe#0000 Though most people on most planets are perfectly reasonable in my experience [14-Feb-25 09:46 AM] jcheung#0000 that's stupid. planets should be able to afford their own stuff, and when there's excess that can be spent to reduce gov workload or perform upgrades. like max level WARs [14-Feb-25 10:39 AM] jvaler#0000 SE-648b can't even pay for it's own upkeep [14-Feb-25 10:40 AM] jvaler#0000 i've thought about increasing taxes but last i checked it's in-line with other planets soo... [14-Feb-25 10:40 AM] jcheung#0000 running a charity? [14-Feb-25 10:40 AM] jvaler#0000 basically [14-Feb-25 10:40 AM] jvaler#0000 but i don't mind [14-Feb-25 10:40 AM] jvaler#0000 i run lots of charities [14-Feb-25 11:51 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Yannick was a tough and expensive one to start up, the focus is on higher tier stuff so it needed a lot of infrastructure built right away and upkeep/programs cost a ton when it was only 3 players trying to get a bunch of ENG. Solution: I upgraded the WH, maxed the fees, and used it like a supporter subscription. lol. [15-Feb-25 07:39 PM] finestone#0000 Phobos Government has agreed to help fund UNI level 2 for Origo. If you would like to assist with this process by donating or offering goods at better prices than the following please reach out. Thank you. :antares_initiative: Uni Level 2 ABH 14 (48k/u) 672k ADE 19 (43k/u) 817k ASE 19 (47k/u) 893k ATA 14 (35k/u) 490k LOG 1 (69k/u) 69k BMF 2 (26k/u) 52k [17-Feb-25 11:55 AM] tanda#0000 I'm just about at the point on two planets I govern where they can actually start playing me back for POPI materials. Problem is now I need to start tracking these expenses. Do the more experienced governors mind sharing some screenshots of their trackers so I can crib off of you? Thanks ❀️ [17-Feb-25 11:56 AM] getonthetrain#0000 https://tenor.com/view/fb-f-band-i-gdown-gif-23334383 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/fb-f-band-i-gdown-gif-23334383 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/2EnzryQVISM0BJX6gkYkimZ1AN4B9Az36hdTI5ztr7A/https/media.tenor.com/OtR5vp1C3QcAAAAe/fb-f-band-i-gdown.png [17-Feb-25 12:07 PM] archielvahr#0000 Feel free to copy this sheet: [17-Feb-25 12:07 PM] archielvahr#0000 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13VFEPNafq8B6fRprOOSw96a5Zm5abWNvJjd0jsKExkY/edit?gid=0#gid=0 {Embed} https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13VFEPNafq8B6fRprOOSw96a5Zm5abWNvJjd0jsKExkY/edit?gid=0 Malahat Governance https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Y6Q9vompcfTLP8eKVhD_bjklMkgkke40suXTWNiU5LI/https/lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docs/AHkbwyI0J7iX6rtFVEz862vvFm87hvH38PpD-Q_hxVCNfQDtZEjFJAGHNAiclvzTcLbVIF1oATz-GW0uME4iIi8Kq2DV_ZasLg2OAzZ6S3_iHEU45PM3JRqw%3Dw1200-h630-p [17-Feb-25 12:08 PM] jab.sh#0000 is it possible to go past 10 warehouses on a planet? [17-Feb-25 12:08 PM] archielvahr#0000 Tracks reimbursement price vs. CX price, supports multiple contributors, supports a ledger of unpaid contributions vs. payouts over time, and also can support a register of government storage, if you opt to organize it that way [17-Feb-25 12:12 PM] tanda#0000 Thanks, @archielvahr ! I probably won't use this exact sheet, as it is currently intimidating the heck out of me, but I like a lot of the features here {Reactions} πŸ‘ [17-Feb-25 12:15 PM] archielvahr#0000 Yeah, originally there was a feeling that it was important that anyone could contribute materials to the planet and get reimbursed at the same rate. In those cases, I will hold the materials until I put them into the POPI. That way items wouldn’t get wasted. [17-Feb-25 12:16 PM] archielvahr#0000 But very few people actually wanted to contribute in that way. And managing the storage was confusing for people who were auditing Malahat’s spending. So I have moved away from that storage tracking. [17-Feb-25 12:17 PM] archielvahr#0000 But the system should theoretically work well for planets, where multiple members of Parliament are in charge of POPI [17-Feb-25 12:18 PM] tanda#0000 Yeah, the ledger section alone looks very solid [17-Feb-25 03:13 PM] akyantor#0000 I started off using a ledger, but it was so infrequent that anyone else contributed and not convinced anyone actually looked at it for the smaller planets that I was looking after (Halyos / SE-648c). I now just refill the COGC/POPI once a week, paying out at CX average rate, with a single payout. [17-Feb-25 03:13 PM] akyantor#0000 I suspect that may be less practical for a larger planet with more complicated upkeep [17-Feb-25 03:19 PM] akyantor#0000 When I was tracking I used this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mVnCuFO8aBOdb3cGuaKjSyYwItwcXLteuY-377Kw5B0/edit?gid=81970377#gid=81970377 {Reactions} πŸ‘ [17-Feb-25 03:21 PM] tanda#0000 I manage a bunch of smaller planets myself, I just want to be able to track going forward how much is being spent on these planets, maybe to see if I can actually get paid back [17-Feb-25 03:21 PM] tanda#0000 so simpler trackers like this one are perfect inspiration [18-Feb-25 12:37 AM] evov#0000 Screen shot of the sheet/tool I made for myself to manage the planets I run. Not really a useful thing for other people to use, but if you're planning on making your own tools, it might help spark some idea's. Main reason I made my own was I wanted to use fractional upkeeps to make the planets run as efficiently as possible, as far as I'm aware there wasn't really anyone else doing it, so it made sense to make my own sheet to manage it. {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1341297472156336229/image.png?ex=681510dd&is=6813bf5d&hm=36f0492c5cdd98041d6f592c9dc20cde60c992aec1a590bc570ab72d4dc92770& [18-Feb-25 12:39 AM] pxlfox.#0000 "needs needed" ^^ [18-Feb-25 12:42 AM] evov#0000 haha like I said, I make my tools for me to use... not to be user friendly / exportable πŸ™‚ {Reactions} 😘 [25-Feb-25 06:28 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 Respectfully: you make some sexy spreadsheets πŸ˜† how much of this is FIO pulls and how much is manual entry? KAWA uses a modified version of Archie's sheet, but I'd love to make something more efficient for running 20+ planets [26-Feb-25 01:33 AM] evov#0000 Only external data that auto updates is prices. Manual entry stuff I have to change/update = stuff in the peach colour. Once a week I'll update Last period tax income, population count and cash on hand. - These numbers are linked to so I can provide a weekly update/report for everyone in the project to see how the planets are going. Stuff in dark grey are raw numbers manually entered from external sources. Stuff in green is typically derived values... stuff that gets calculated in the sheet. Stuff in blue is typically output values... stuff that gets calculated AND the output is relevant / informs choices or actions. I have one of these pages per planet I run ( at the moment 9, soon to be more than 9 I think ). The main reason I wanted to make my own was to allow me to manage fractional upkeep. I'm sure existing tools that are out there probably work fine for well established planets, but just didn't seem to work well for the things I was trying to optimize for. [26-Feb-25 09:29 AM] jab.sh#0000 I think you can auto update cash on hand [27-Feb-25 03:26 PM] cptcoleslaw#0000 yeah that's fair. Small planets can be weird to balance, especially for higher tier stuff, and it's easy to waste a lot of upkeep if you don't do it fractionally. For larger planets, you can kind of do the same thing, but on a larger scale. Just filling a week of upkeep every month or so and letting it settle back down [27-Feb-25 08:35 PM] tanda#0000 Alright folks, I just inherited the Aceland governorship from xepiov by accident. I'm curious what more experienced governors would suggest here? It seems the planet is running a substantial unemployment buffer (maybe even excessive) on PIO and SET, but far into the negatives for ENG [27-Feb-25 08:36 PM] tanda#0000 and also, what's the best option for Culture POPI maintenance? HOG appears the cheapest, but is barely populated [27-Feb-25 08:46 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I would give the sheet Archiel made a look [27-Feb-25 09:25 PM] .urpalhal#0000 I’m not sure that it will have the answers but I could be a nice testing ground [27-Feb-25 09:26 PM] tanda#0000 well, good news is I can't make it worse, lol {Reactions} πŸ˜† [27-Feb-25 09:27 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Valid and fair [27-Feb-25 09:29 PM] tanda#0000 And mostly I'm wondering if it isn't worth slimming up the PIO and SET buffers currently for Aceland: 4k unemployed PIO and 3.4k unemployed SET seems excessive! [27-Feb-25 09:32 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Depends on who you ask [28-Feb-25 10:17 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 yeah, that's a lot for a small planet, but sometimes a natural side effect of trying to build up higher tier pops [28-Feb-25 10:19 AM] cptcoleslaw#0000 unless you can work some clever magic (archiel's sheet it great for this), it's unlikely you'll be able to slim the PIO/SET population while also growing ENG [01-Mar-25 04:03 PM] finestone#0000 Do you happen to have/know the amount of Fulfillment a building provides with 1 input filled. Ex 1-INF=(100)Health 1HOS=(200)health [01-Mar-25 04:05 PM] finestone#0000 Im trying to make a Input Goods calc similar to yours but hard to compare HOS to INF when i dont know the output. [01-Mar-25 04:07 PM] jcheung#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1345517825242169375/image.png?ex=68149960&is=681347e0&hm=03beec724186e285720ca19da1dce1083d5ad64983a5bce106c74e8fcf240f83& [01-Mar-25 04:09 PM] finestone#0000 Ohh perfect thanks where did you get that [01-Mar-25 04:09 PM] jcheung#0000 so since hos takes double the number of inputs, i think each input basically gives the same amount {Reactions} πŸ‘ [01-Mar-25 04:09 PM] .urpalhal#0000 In the manuals? [01-Mar-25 04:09 PM] jcheung#0000 https://pct.fnar.net/population-infrastructure/ {Embed} https://pct.fnar.net/population-infrastructure/ Population Infrastructure - PrUn Community Derived Information Need Fulfillment General Need Fulfillment Formula Need Fulfillment = Needs Provided / Needs Needed Needs Needed The needs needed by a planetary population are a weighted sum of the current population and the need fulfillment weights listed below. Type Life Support Safety Health Comfort Culture Education Pioneer 0.50 0.25 0.15 0.05 0.03 0.02 Sett... {Reactions} blobheart [01-Mar-25 04:10 PM] finestone#0000 I tried looking but couldnt find 😦 [01-Mar-25 04:11 PM] .urpalhal#0000 (I can’t ever find shit in the manuals) [01-Mar-25 04:11 PM] jcheung#0000 i actually just found this one [01-Mar-25 04:11 PM] jcheung#0000 it's not manuals [01-Mar-25 04:11 PM] jcheung#0000 it's FIO's thingy [01-Mar-25 04:11 PM] jcheung#0000 https://discord.com/channels/667551433503014924/829735127373447239/901934415398203432 [01-Mar-25 04:12 PM] finestone#0000 You provided the answer i needed so thank you very much [01-Mar-25 04:12 PM] jcheung#0000 technically Saganaki did [01-Mar-25 04:12 PM] jcheung#0000 πŸ˜‰ [01-Mar-25 05:19 PM] evov#0000 All that info is in the top right of my screen shot. That's where I made the notes I used making the sheet. Small versions of the building are 2500. Large are 5000. Mixed are 1000/1000. ( at least that what I understand it to be, so those are the numbers I used ). Everything else is just a fraction of that.... i.e. For a small building, 1 out of 3 inputs supplied, 50% of the time -> need fulfilment provided = 0.5 * 0.33 * 2500 {Reactions} πŸ‘ [01-Mar-25 07:44 PM] finestone#0000 {Attachments} https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1345572557356662815/image.png?ex=6814cc59&is=68137ad9&hm=6f11d6c8e869fc523c3e9afb7968144b01ca7854184df550d3ab739b1a12a1a8& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1345572558006911007/image.png?ex=6814cc59&is=68137ad9&hm=3cfafbf0ee850fec7d1822c4fc0a15107d52eab4c57ddb3544cbf74c36489025& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1268787191727788193/1345572558434734175/image.png?ex=6814cc59&is=68137ad9&hm=ed416fba85bb384378fcbd37b2dd70c8b183a8dac7c5fd137d2c8ae91751da22& [01-Mar-25 07:47 PM] finestone#0000 Understood Pretty sure we did the same thing i just wanted a sheet were i could change the COG to the ever changing market [12-Mar-25 06:37 PM] tanda#0000 Any thoughts on when it's best to upgrade current infrastructure vs add a new Input? [12-Mar-25 06:38 PM] tanda#0000 I'm currently looking at Aceland (again) and it looks like one of the two is on the immediate horizon. But after amortizing the infrastructure costs across 90 days +the increased cheaper inputs, it's still nearly 3x more expensive that adding 2 new inputs [12-Mar-25 09:59 PM] archielvahr#0000 I think since infrastructure never needs repairs and it will outlast all of us, it makes sense to eat that sunk cost and take the savings over time. If you're a big player 90 day paybacks aren't uncommon (HQ upgrade costs). [12-Mar-25 09:59 PM] archielvahr#0000 Especially in situations where the capital is just sitting idle, like with the grant money Phobos distributes- if it's not spent, it's sitting idle [12-Mar-25 10:00 PM] archielvahr#0000 And hopefully those infrastructure upgrades can turn into money in the hands of new players AND eventually have a return [12-Mar-25 10:00 PM] archielvahr#0000 Rise was always very aggressive upgrading to get the cheapest upkeep, and I think that worked well [12-Mar-25 10:01 PM] archielvahr#0000 Once you start looking at 90d to 180d+ returns.. the prices are gonna shift at that point anyway, so your returns might be better [12-Mar-25 10:02 PM] archielvahr#0000 especially since some key gov upkeep items are MMs - like DW is going to be pegged. IDC will stay at the IDC rate forever. But secondary items like PFE or SUN will (I assume) rise in price [12-Mar-25 10:04 PM] archielvahr#0000 Also if you do the upgrade later, then it's still a very long return , but you just start the clock later. [12-Mar-25 10:05 PM] archielvahr#0000 That being said, if you are looking at 90d amortized construction still being 3x the price the second input. It's probably not worth it [12-Mar-25 10:07 PM] archielvahr#0000 Final consideration: If you're just 10% short on a need, building PAR number 8 will solve that, but doubling the number of mats in the 7 PARs will way overshoot. So that means partial upkeep or doing the upgrade. And partial upkeep is a lot to manage and error prone. A little inattention and you fall way short or overshoot. [12-Mar-25 10:07 PM] archielvahr#0000 So I wouldn't ever begrudge the upgrade if it avoids the need for partial upkeep [13-Mar-25 01:26 AM] evov#0000 As some of the planets I manage get closer to needing increased inputs, I'll be looking closer at this issue. Capital cost of upgrading buildings vs extra materials. I think in general, the value of capital in this area is being under-rated. If the Gov has free cash sitting around... is it more effective to hand out loans and get interest on that $$ or spend it on upgrading pop inf to continue using the single cheapest input. I very very strongly suspect that neither option will be the best choice in 100% of the situations. [13-Mar-25 02:33 PM] razenpok#0000 @archielvahr 403 Forbidden when trying to open your guide from #gov-guides [13-Mar-25 02:33 PM] .urpalhal#0000 Same [13-Mar-25 02:33 PM] .urpalhal#0000 (I did see it earlier) [13-Mar-25 02:40 PM] archielvahr#0000 oof yeah, all my sites are down, I'm on it. Thanks for the report! {Reactions} πŸ‘ πŸ”₯ [13-Mar-25 02:50 PM] manhim#0000 https://tenor.com/view/the-website-is-down-gif-26506472 {Embed} https://tenor.com/view/the-website-is-down-gif-26506472 https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/HWpwbBFk3U-AuO4R7hPaDKQ4XJ8D9LyD6BsDtHibz44/https/media.tenor.com/_eQuW-ZffEUAAAAe/the-website-is-down.png [13-Mar-25 03:39 PM] finestone#0000 I think it also depends on the building. Some buildings have clear secondary choices for inputs while others become very expensive. {Reactions} πŸ‘ ============================================================== Exported 923 message(s) ==============================================================